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  • So this friend of mine, Dave chaves, is banned from the Game of Thrones wiki by an admin, Xanderen, for "personal attacks". He was a really active member of our discussions and a large portion of us (well, the active portion, I really don't know how much people are there)  miss him and want him back. Xanderen wasn't really active on the discussions but he was a mod, and he permanently banned Dave after having a disagreement with him about COVID19, and while I don't really agree with what Dave said about it, I don't think he should be banned for it, as it was after all only a difference of opinion. All of the posts and comments he made were deleted too, and we're rather annoyed about it, as he has wrote some very long posts in the past, and the lack of his comments in the posts he commented on are now looking strange and it is hard to discuss any further on them. Now, the "delete messages" tool seems to only be used for deleting spams, but Dave wasn't spamming, so I don't understand why Xanderen would delete them. So can someone check his messages and hopefully unban him, or at the very least undelete his messages? Thank you! This is Dave's userpage:  https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/User:Dave_chaves

    Edit: Sorry for forgetting this, this was the page that Dave was banned for  https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/f/p/3343172654596432754/r/3344233352138887253

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    • Could you also link to the discussion for which he was banned? As it's hard to see what happened otherwise.

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    • Orithyus is right, this all happened because Xanderen disagreed with Dave's opinion and the reaction was completely over the top. I can understand that Dave said something rude, but that doesn't warrant this harsh of a punishment, it's completely disproportionate.

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    • To me it seems like he got banned for saying that coronavirus wasn't as bad as the common flu or something like that?

      Its hard to see as all his comments have been deleted. In my opinion what he said was bad and ignorant and he should be corrected, however this doesn't seem to be a good reason to ban someone let alone permanently ban him! Permanently banning someone should be reserved for someone who has broken the rules of a wiki repeatedly and in major ways and refuses to repent not against people who have an different (and wrong) opinion. These people should be corrected as they pose a threat not only to themselves but also to others but not banned.

      Far worse in my opinion however is the fact that he deleted all his contributions. If he had been spamming his opinion all over those pages it would have been okay but as far as I can see he made a single wrong comment and got god knows only how much work removed. I would recommend that he asks to be unbanned on [[User: Xanderen]'s message wall on this wiki, failing that he can open a support ticket by contact Fandom Staff. (select protecting myself on Fandom, I have an problem with another user, dispute with an admin and than what happened)

      Edit: he (or you as he is banned) might also want to contact an active bureaucrat/other active editors and discuss the possibility of having his admin rights removed for major abuse of said rights. This is something best discussed with the editors/bureaucrats/other admins of your wiki.

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    • No, He never said that. He only compared the death numbers of COVID19 to common flu, and said people were reacting over the top to it.

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    • Also I don't think he can ask... and we were trying to solve it by talking with a mod, Reverb Frost, but we've waited a long time and he still hasn't found a way to unban him, so we came here to ask for help.

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    • Orithyus wrote: No, He never said that. He only compared the death numbers of COVID19 to common flu.

      Oh, in that case its even worse than I thought. Have him contact Xanderen here on this wiki with an request to be unbanned and failing that open a ticket with Staff. And discuss with your community to have Xanderen's rights removed for major abuse. Never forget that an Admin only has more tools not more power.

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    • Orithyus wrote: Also I don't think he can ask... and we were trying to solve it by talking with a mod, Reverb Frost, but we've waited a long time and he still hasn't found a way to unban him, so we came here to ask for help.

      The reason he a mod can't unban him is probably because he was banned by a admin. Contact an Admin or Bureaucrat of your wiki.

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    • No, I don't think that they could help... the GoT wiki needs two admins to outvote one, and some admins have ignored us and we only have one admin on our side...

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    • Orithyus wrote: No, I don't think that they could help... the GoT wiki needs two admins to outvote one, and some admins have ignored us and we only have one admin on our side...

      Any bureaucrats who could help? Also that system sounds really stupid

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    • I think Allice has asked some bureucats, but they've made no response

      Edit: Ok, I've submited a ticket. I hope they'll resopnd.

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    • Sorry if we're a little slow in dealing with this situation. I will review the matter more thoroughly as soon as my workshift ends.

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    • Thanks!

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    • Asarta wrote: In my opinion what he said was bad and ignorant and he should be corrected,

      Barging in: everyone is entitled to an opinion, but in matters of administration on another wiki, we are irrelevant. The blocked user can contact the admin, there is no other appeals process (and even that isn't technically an appeals process).

      Also, comparing death numbers for flu and Covid and holding them as evidence of whatever... is just stupid. Flu doesn't lead to lockdowns, self-isolation and policy changes, so those numbers are not based on the same variables and thus completely incomparable. Both Covid and flue cases are also underreported, and we don't know how inaccurate official figures are. But the infection rate, the least inaccurate means to compare diseases, is higher for Covid. But enough of that. You can question whether ignorance on a topic irrelevant to the wiki is a blockable offence, but the decision ultimately lies with the admins.

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    • As I said, I will review the matter more thoroughly when my work shift ends but as my fellow admin Moonracer said, the decision will most likely rest with the bureaucrats on Game of Thrones Wiki.

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    • Sorry, completely missed that. Felt a need to clarify something small and in doing so completely forgot to read ahead. :) Good luck on your decision.

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    • Tupka217 wrote: Sorry, completely missed that. Felt a need to clarify something small and in doing so completely forgot to read ahead. :) Good luck on your decision.

      No need to apologize. I appreciate your input.

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    • Tupka217 wrote: Sorry, completely missed that. Felt a need to clarify something small and in doing so completely forgot to read ahead. :) Good luck on your decision.

      Recognizable :), also nice to see another Groninger

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    • Aye we need Big Dave unbanned, he just stated his opinion.

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    • After reviewing the dialogue between Dave and Xanderen more thoroughly, including the comments that were deleted, I'm going to have to disagree with those of you saying Xanderen abused his authority as an admin. Dave did more than just state his opinion, he cussed out Xanderen, and that will definitely hurt his case if and when this matter is also reviewed by one of our aforementioned bureaucrats.

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    • And yet the first rule clearly states "be open minded about differing opinions". The initial conflict was started because Xanderen aggressively had a go at Dave, and while I don't excuse Dave's use of language, I think it's fair to say that Xanderen was just as disrespectful.

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    • Well, as I said earlier, it's up to the bureaucrats to decide whether or not an admin should be stripped of the authority entrusted to them.

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    • About the only thing you can do is take it up to the administration for the wiki. No one here can really do anything about it. But if I may suggest, Dave's best chance of getting a lighter sentence than a permanent ban is to apologize to the admin in question and politely ask for the ban to be shortened.

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    • I was able to read the entire back-and-forth between Dave and Xanderen and yes Dave cursed at Xanderen but he's never done anything else wrong. And his punishment does not fit the crime:

      "It is a punishment reserved for only a few; but if a user constantly disrupts the wiki, we have the power to cut them off from the edit button permanently, and sometimes it must be done."

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    • Nevertheless, that's up to the admins to decide.

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    • I think Xanderen has done a great deal of work in the wiki...he has 9000 or so edits...just get Dave back on this wiki and end this whole thing. I don't want Xanderen to be banned, we just want Dave unbanned.

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    • As a local moderator to the wiki, I did contact the admin in question here but the message was ignored. IMO, the ban was way to harsh. User in question had just put forward their opinions while the admin asked them to stand down, as soon as the user in question made another comment on the post, the admin blocked them indefinitely. 

      Here I would like to specify certain points:

      1) The admin is never active on the Dborad, so before making a ban, on a highly active user, they should discuss it with other admins. To add to the humiliation, they even deleted all the posts and comments by user. (This can be defined as vandalism.) Since they are never active there and just happened to be active this time, they should inform/consult/ talk to the day-to-day user group that looks after the Dborad. (although this is subjective, but if I were an admin and in a similar situation, I'd do this)

      2) The admin decided to disappear ever since and would not respond to anyone. Their last edit on the wiki is dated 25th April 2020, while I contacted them on on 27th April 2020. One would say they went offline due to a personal reasons and that would be convenient, accept, he was active on the Harry Potter wiki from 20th June 2020. here Ironically their edit was about bullying. This was the summary they added (Bullying is the sustained targeting of a person or persons over time time) I am not sure if that is the right definition, but what happened on the Dboard seems like an act of bullying. 

      After no contact from the admin in question I contacted some users on FANDOM to seek input. I was advised to inform the banned user if they feel that it was a wrong ban then they should appeal to other admins on this wiki or contact the admin in question. If nothing works, they be advised to move on and find a new community. And I did exactly the same. I amnot sure what happened after this, untill I got a message on my wall from a user today. 



      I will say, Dave was wrong in using abusive language but he wasn't wrong in expressing his opinions. I don't agree with them one bit but one of the key rules of the Dboard is to have open mind and respect differing opinions. Xandern was probably right in banning the user. But the ban should have been a cool off ban. Not more than a few hours or a day at max. But they went way over board in deleting the entire contributions of Dave to the GoT Dboard. 

      Neither party is right is completely wrong here. But I  think the WM and admin team should talk to Xandern about this. And reduce the ban time to one month on Dave's account or lift it given that he has served 2 months already for using a curse word and having different opinion on COVID19 and his contributions be undelete. The contributions were made to the Discussion board of the GoT FANDOM, No one owns them. They are owed to be returned to the community. 

      I would also like to state that I still  respect the decisions of the admins whatever that would be. Be it to leave the matter as it or make any or all changes. Thank you.

      EDIT: I would like to add that it is highly inappropriate of users to request that Xanderen's rights be removed or that they be banned instead. I have known Xanderen from a very long time and his work speaks for itself. They are a respected user on FANDOM. They may come off as upfront in some situations but they are an excellent editor as well as contributor to the community. What I do expect after this is that the admin team with advice from the WM would sit down and talk about ways to prevent these situations in future. What is happening right now is that the entire community is suffering in one way or the other. And that should be prevented. 

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    • A FANDOM user
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