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  • Love Robin
    Love Robin closed this thread because:
    Last 2 posts.
    08:39, March 16, 2020

    The Fandom Terms of Use, under the sub-heading 'User Conduct', states the following (italicised): 

    You agree not to:

    • Abuse, harass, threaten or intimidate other Fandom users;
    • Post or transmit any content that is obscene, pornographic, abusive, offensive, profane, or otherwise violates any law or right of any third party, or content that contains homophobia, ethnic slurs, religious intolerance, or encourages criminal conduct;

    I find this section of the Terms of Use problematic. It states that users should not 'post or transmit any content' that contains 'homophobia' or 'religious intolerance'. Over a month ago, I was blocked from Arthur Wiki for inserting 'homophobic language' (I was merely commenting on an article about a fictional character and expressing my dismay at the fact that children are being indoctrinated with the homosexual agenda, but okay).

    I understand that homophobia is against the Fandom TOU, but it also says that 'religious intolerance' is prohibited. I felt that religious intolerance was displayed towards me during this episode, and that some users were insulting my religious beliefs. These users got off scot-free. And of course, the only user that came to my defence was blocked, and I ended up with a Fandom-wide block, leaving the two wikis I run, and am the only user with administrative powers on, defenceless from vandalism. I am still clearing up the damage done to them.

    My question is, how can Fandom avoid a user facing religious intolerance after post content that is considered to be 'homophobic'? For example, a religious user could post a good-faith comment stating that homosexuality goes against his/her beliefs. Another user could misinterpret this as being 'homophobia', and attack that user's beliefs or even penalise him/her. This is what I experienced, and it is religious intolerance.

    I do not wish for other users to experience what I did. The TOU should be reviewed or updated. Perhaps, users who posted content that is considered to be 'homophobic', but is not ACTUALLY insulting or abusive, should not be penalised, or at least not be penalised as severely as I was.

    Also, I could not help but notice that the TOU neglects to warn users against posting or transmitting content containing heterophobic language. And before whoever replies to this discussion points out that heterophobia counts as 'abuse' or 'harassment', note that 'homophobia' falls into these categories as well, and yet it is still listed separately.

    I strongly recommend that the Fandom Staff reviews or updates the TOU to avoid religious intolerance and heterophobia. The Fandom Staff has already displayed bias towards me in the past. This may be thanks to the outdated TOU, which they are forced to follow. But it seems possible to me that the TOU is not the main problem, but Fandom and its staff. I have reason to believe that Fandom may be biased, prejudiced and bigoted towards certain groups (some of which I fall into) out of their own personal views. There may even be a Fandom political/religious agenda. I understand that this appears to be far-fetched, but from what I have experienced, I would not be too surprised if these theories of mine were true.

    Anyway, please reply soon, whoever may be reading this. If the Fandom Staff take my advice on board, this could change Fandom for the better. And no, this post is not 'homophobic'. And if it is called so, all that will do is further prove my point. Thank you.

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    • I think you're seeing this with a little too much biased. 

      I mean to say that how things are said is a huge part of whether they are deemed homophobic or not, which I believe was explained to you at the time this all happened. I am going to write two sentences and I'll ask you to note the very different way they are expressed:

      "I think this episode may be inappropriate to children, as it exposes them to complex topics like homosexuality, and this may influence their view on relationships."

      "This episode is disgusting as it's indoctrinating children to the homosexual agenda, and I think it's awful that it'll ruin their minds with abnormal behaviour"

      In the first, you are not expressing any moral or ethical judgements, but just saying that you think it is it wrong in neutral language. In the second, you are expressing moral and ethical judgement, with negative and insulting language towards an entire group of people. I would not be offended by the first, as an LGBT+ person, but I would by the second, as the second is homophobic. 

      If I also speak as a fellow religious person -?

      The religious intolerance works on the same lines as the former. You have a right to express your religious beliefs, but not at the expense of putting down others or engaging in hate speech. If we took the view that religious people have a carte blanche to say anything, so long as it's part of their religion, we start a strange chain of privilege, in which some groups have more freedom of speech than others . . . "everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others".

      It's okay for you to say: "this makes me uncomfortable, as it goes against my religious beliefs". No one would bat an eyelid at that. It's not okay to engage in hate speech, but then say: "it's okay, because my religion says those things are bad". Religious tolerance means allowing you to express your beliefs, but it's your responsibility to express than in a way that's not intolerant of others in the process. 

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    • Also, you know when you add kudos, we can see you left the kudos?

      So we can see the person "agreeing" with you is . . . you.

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    • KevinVolkov wrote:
      Also, you know when you add kudos, we can see you left the kudos?

      So we can see the person "agreeing" with you is . . . you.

      Good for you.

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    • KevinVolkov wrote:
      I think you're seeing this with a little too much biased. 

      I mean to say that how things are said is a huge part of whether they are deemed homophobic or not, which I believe was explained to you at the time this all happened. I am going to write two sentences and I'll ask you to note the very different way they are expressed:

      "I think this episode may be inappropriate to children, as it exposes them to complex topics like homosexuality, and this may influence their view on relationships."

      "This episode is disgusting as it's indoctrinating children to the homosexual agenda, and I think it's awful that it'll ruin their minds with abnormal behaviour"

      In the first, you are not expressing any moral or ethical judgements, but just saying that you think it is it wrong in neutral language. In the second, you are expressing moral and ethical judgement, with negative and insulting language towards an entire group of people. I would not be offended by the first, as an LGBT+ person, but I would by the second, as the second is homophobic. 

      If I also speak as a fellow religious person -?

      The religious intolerance works on the same lines as the former. You have a right to express your religious beliefs, but not at the expense of putting down others or engaging in hate speech. If we took the view that religious people have a carte blanche to say anything, so long as it's part of their religion, we start a strange chain of privilege, in which some groups have more freedom of speech than others . . . "everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others".

      It's okay for you to say: "this makes me uncomfortable, as it goes against my religious beliefs". No one would bat an eyelid at that. It's not okay to engage in hate speech, but then say: "it's okay, because my religion says those things are bad". Religious tolerance means allowing you to express your beliefs, but it's your responsibility to express than in a way that's not intolerant of others in the process. 

      Hate speech is free speech, m8.

      Also, since you claim to be homosexual, I strongly suggest that you seek conversion therapy.

      And no, what I just said was not 'homophobic' or 'hate speech'. I am just trying to help. Calm down, please.

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    • This is probably best answered by Fandom directly and they'd probably prefer it too- via contact, you will get full staff attention in a ticket vs. a forum. Here/in a the forum, it is more likely going to get this topic locked because of how it will draw heated and uncivil debate.

      In terms of religious intolerance I believe they mean as in something like antisemitism (anything pro-nazi I see gets removed asap and people blocked) and it is not something like speaking disparagingly towards a particular religion.

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    • Hollowness wrote:
      This is probably best answered by Fandom directly and they'd probably prefer it too- via contact, you will get full staff attention in a ticket vs. a forum. Here/in a the forum, it is more likely going to get this topic locked because of how it will draw heated and uncivil debate.

      In terms of religious intolerance I believe they mean as in something like antisemitism (anything pro-nazi I see gets removed asap and people blocked) and it is not something like speaking disparagingly towards a particular religion.

      Nice to see how biased Fandom is. Perhaps my theory is correct.

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    • Toby The Pug wrote: Also, since you claim to be homosexual, I strongly suggest that you seek conversion therapy.

      Why?

      Also, there is more to LGBT+ than just gay people.

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    • KevinVolkov wrote:

      Toby The Pug wrote: Also, since you claim to be homosexual, I strongly suggest that you seek conversion therapy.

      Why?

      Also, there is more to LGBT+ than just gay people.

      Well, before I answer this, I would just like to point out that I do not wish for what I am about to say to be interpreted as 'homophobic' or 'hate speech' by the Fandom Staff (who are definitely not biased, by the way 😏), and that, to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of different views and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that you should seek conversion therapy because it will improve your mental, physical and spiritual health. And I believe that homosexuality is pretty much all there is to LGGBDTTTIQQAAPP.

      TL;DR - pweez don't ban me. conversion therapy = good. LGBT = gay.

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    • Discussing any of this won’t do any good here. Neither is going to convince the other and you’re just gonna get angry. At this point, the only thing you can do is taking your concerns to Staff.

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    • Tupka217 wrote:
      Discussing any of this won’t do any good here. Neither is going to convince the other and you’re just gonna get angry. At this point, the only thing you can do is taking your concerns to Staff.

      Suggesting that I am stubborn and unable to control my temper (unlike the people behind my unfair block) is not exactly what I would call helpful, especially considering that you are a Fandom councilor and helper. I find it most disturbing indeed that I know more about your own role on Fandom than yourself. Your comment only further proves my point concerning the bias of the Fandom staff, and perhaps even my theory about a Fandom agenda. And no, my comment is not a valid reason for me to suffer yet another unfair block. And if I am censored and blocked again, that will only further prove my theory that Fandom is biased and not above silencing those who who are aware of this. You know that there is something not quite right about Fandom when users like myself, who has adopted a wiki, runs two, and protected many others from vandalism for years, is penalised merely for exposing their true colours.

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    • Talk to staff. Noone here has any say in the matter.

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    • contact Fandom Staff. Only they and their legal department can consider, much less effect, any changes to the Terms of Use.

      Closing this thread.

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