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  • Mira Laime
    Mira Laime closed this thread because:
    Thread has gone off-topic and there is likely nothing new to be added at this point.
    22:42, December 18, 2018

    This year, we released Announcements, a new tool for admins and moderators to notify their community members about important news.

    Since they are now no longer needed for this purpose, we will be retiring Forum highlights. Our target date for this is mid-December.

    That means, admins will no longer have the ability to highlight a forum thread to generate notifications to everyone who is visiting their community. Highlights that are already active will continue to be displayed until their default display time of one week is over.

    What’s different about Announcements

    • Announcements can be created by Discussions moderators as well as admins.
    • An announcement notification can link not just to a Discussions thread, but to any type of content on the wiki - article pages, blog posts, message walls, etc.
    • Announcements generate notifications that all recently active community members will see regardless of where they are on FANDOM.
    • Announcement expire after 30 days unless they are manually expired sooner.
    • Only one announcement can be active per community at any one time.

    You can find more details about Announcements on the Announcements help page.

    What if I have more than one thing about which I want to notify my community?

    If you have multiple things you’d like your community to notice, we recommend creating a blog or article page where you list what is currently noteworthy on the wiki. You can create a new announcement whenever a new item is added.

    That way, your users will get notified without being flooded with multiple announcement notifications from all their communities.

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    • Ah brilliant. That's great to hear. I've been waiting to see more threaded forum features become deprecated and replaced with equivalents that are part of Announcements and Discussions. Since I've been waiting for a while, I'm obviously waiting for the time to come when threaded forums are finally deprecated completely. I do like threaded forums, but as they are getting replaced with discussions, I'm just waiting for that time to come.

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    • Not that I mind it, but why is specifically the highlight feature being retired if the whole Forum feature is planned for retiring anyways? I'm sure it's less work for the engineers to sunset Forum all at once instead of sunsetting it feature-by-feature. Did forum highlights cause performance issues, are they being phased out so people use Announcements more or is there some other reason?

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    • I'm really glad that highlights are being specifically retired. Announcements is a much better feature since it works cross-wiki, and now we won't be getting spammy notifications from wikis that highlight ten threads at once.

      KockaAdmiralac wrote:

      Not that I mind it, but why is specifically the highlight feature being retired if the whole Forum feature is planned for retiring anyways? I'm sure it's less work for the engineers to sunset Forum all at once instead of sunsetting it feature-by-feature. Did forum highlights cause performance issues, are they being phased out so people use Announcements more or is there some other reason?

      Discussions is nowhere near developed enough to warrant Forum's retirement. On the other hand, Announcements is working to the point where they can forego Forum highlights to stop wikis from abusing them. I'm really thankful they're doing it this way instead of retiring Forum wholesale right now since there's no good replacement yet.

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    • SlyCooperFan1 wrote: Discussions is nowhere near developed enough to warrant Forum's retirement. On the other hand, Announcements is working to the point where they can forego Forum highlights to stop wikis from abusing them. I'm really thankful they're doing it this way instead of retiring Forum wholesale right now since there's no good replacement yet.

      What I'm asking is, what is the harm of leaving the two working alongside each other until it's time for Forum to go? It takes extra effort for them to retire forum highlights and I'm not really seeing the benefit. Sure, I've seen forum highlight "abuse" you mentioned, but is it really all that frequent and is it really annoying many users so much to the point of its separate retirement?

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    • KockaAdmiralac wrote:
      Not that I mind it, but why is specifically the highlight feature being retired if the whole Forum feature is planned for retiring anyways? I'm sure it's less work for the engineers to sunset Forum all at once instead of sunsetting it feature-by-feature. Did forum highlights cause performance issues, are they being phased out so people use Announcements more or is there some other reason?

      Forum highlights are in the way of us revamping notifications as a whole. Right now, we have two systems: The old one that shows message wall updates and forum highlights, and the new one, that shows news from Discussions and Announcements. That's less than ideal, and even though we won't be able to fully revamp this area just yet, removing forum highlights is one step towards that. Plus, it is surprisingly little work to remove just forum highlights, compared to removing the forums completely. And we're not ready to remove forums completely.

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    • I see. Does that mean the regular Forum/Wall notifications are expected to merge with Discussions/Announcements notifications before the Forum feature is sunset?

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    • So, to clarify, is it just the highlight feature that is going away or is it the entire separate notification system? From the original post, it sounds like it is just the highlight feature. However, from #6, it sounds like it might be the entire notification system.

      Although I think the new Announcement system is better in that it is more flexible, I still think the limit of 1 may not be the best idea. I understand that you are trying to avoid a long list (as can currently be the case with Forum highlight). However, people are lazy. Users might not want to go the few extra clicks it takes to access multiple Discussions/Forum posts from some central announcement page. The convenience of having separate announcements is that you can quickly see what each one is about. Perhaps a good compromise would be setting a limit other than 1? Like 3?

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    • I guess I'll have to make a perpetual Announcements blog.

      The implication of this post is that Discussions will never have something like Highlighting and the perpetual Announcements blog will have to do that which isn't very good.

      Losing Message Wall notifications without a replacement for Message Wall will be somewhat awful... please don't.

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    • ^ I can attest from experience that though an Announcements blog can be helpful, it’s a pain to maintain & does not often attract much attention beyond the absolute regulars. The recommendation is no solution to this artificial problem.

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    • Great. Just great. Now it will become harder for administrators to pass news around.

      Thanks FANDOM, Thanks. (sarcastic slow clap)

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    • Tiger60f2 wrote: Great. Just great. Now it will become harder for administrators to pass news around.

      Thanks FANDOM, Thanks. (sarcastic slow clap)

      Use announcements?

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    • Sophiedp wrote:

      Tiger60f2 wrote: Great. Just great. Now it will become harder for administrators to pass news around.

      Thanks FANDOM, Thanks. (sarcastic slow clap)

      Use announcements?

      It would still be harder that way.

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    • why not retire the Discussions instead?

      I mean, Forum is good for me because it's obvious. but seriously, why not bring back Forums for real.

      as far I know... Fandom is very ALLERGIC to Negative Criticism or not.

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    • Tiger60f2 wrote:

      Sophiedp wrote:

      Tiger60f2 wrote: Great. Just great. Now it will become harder for administrators to pass news around.

      Thanks FANDOM, Thanks. (sarcastic slow clap)

      Use announcements?

      It would still be harder that way.

      How so?

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    • Sophiedp wrote:

      Tiger60f2 wrote:


      Sophiedp wrote:

      Tiger60f2 wrote: Great. Just great. Now it will become harder for administrators to pass news around.

      Thanks FANDOM, Thanks. (sarcastic slow clap)

      Use announcements?
      It would still be harder that way.
      How so?

      Announcements are basically the same as highlights, but highlights are more efficiant. with highlights, you can have 5 different things to announce and announce them at the same time, but with announcements, you can only have 1 piece of big news.

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    • Message Wall notifications are not going away, those stay as long as we have Message Walls. We're just retiring forum highlights, nothing else. We're not merging Message Wall notifications into the new notifications system right now either. Having everything in one place is the ultimate goal, but we're not there yet.

      We're open to possibly raising the "one announcement at a time" limit, if it's really necessary - but so far, we've not actually seen any communities having an issue with that limit. A number of admins have expressed their worries that one at a time isn't enough, but those are actually usually communities that haven't even started using Announcements yet.

      Very few communities have so much going on at once that they'd need more than one new announcement every couple of days. On the contrary - too many have several highlights going on at all times, causing community members to start ignoring them. If you can have only one news item at a time in your community members' notifications, they'll know that one is important, and be much more likely to pay attention to it.

      If your community is the exception and really needs more than one announcement at a time, and you have already tried Announcements for a while and found the limit to be a genuine problem - do please send us your example via Special:Contact!

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    • The one issue I have is that I don't really see a quantitative way to check this. In the end, I think it will come down to whether or not communities "feel" it "works" and whether or not staff agree. Then again, the same could be said for the effectiveness of multiple announcements.

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    • Mira Laime wrote:

      ... we've not actually seen any communities having an issue with that limit.

      What is your criteria for determining this?

      I basically stopped using Announcements because of this limit. Eventually I will get around to making perpetual Announcement articles or blogs to point Announcements to, but that's yet one more thing I have to do that isn't high enough priority.

      In the very least it would be nice to have a Discussions specific announcement and then a general one. If you use your announcements for Discussions because it doesn't have highlight, you can't use it for anything else.

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    • Hello. I'm an Administrator for the Vs Battles Wiki and I have a few concerns I'd like to raise regarding this development. Hope that they can be listed to.

      I personally think that this is a terrible idea, and very much a case of "trying to fix what isn't broke". Forum Highlights have worked well for countless communities for years on end, and taking it away would severely inconvenience the work of Administrators, who will now have to take multiple steps to do what they once could at the press of a button.

      I sincerely hope it's not late enough for Fandom to reconsider this decision.

      Continuing, there's a few more things I'd like to talk about...

      Mira Laime wrote:

      We're open to possibly raising the "one announcement at a time" limit, if it's really necessary - but so far, we've not actually seen any communities having an issue with that limit. A number of admins have expressed their worries that one at a time isn't enough, but those are actually usually communities that haven't even started using Announcements yet.

      (...)

      If your community is the exception and really needs more than one announcement at a time, and you have already tried Announcements for a while and found the limit to be a genuine problem - do please send us your example via Special:Contact!

      VSBW is one such Community. We have tried to use the Announcement System and found it to be worse than the Forum Highlight system we are accostumed to. Furthermore, our Community is set up in such a way that makes Forum Threads and Highlighted Threads an essential part of the experience, and vital for the continued survival and growth of our community.

      Far more so than any other Wiki I've seen, it's not unusual for there to be numerous threads with hundreds of posts going on simultaneously - often related to completely different subjects and featuring interactions from completely different people. The very broad nature of Vs Battles Wiki allows for fans of a wide number of series to discuss and have fun there, be them fans of anime and manga, western comicbooks, TV Shows such as Doctor Who, works of literature, tabletop games, live-action movies, video games, etc.

      So not only taking away Forum Highlights - But also restricting the ability to have multiple highlights at once, and eventually removing forums altogether would kill our community.

      It would be a severe blow that would hinder our community's ability to progress forward as strong as it is today. So when you say that you haven't heard about specific communities that depend on multiple highlights and forum threads, consider what I tell you.

      Vs Battles, one of the most popular and active communities in all of Fandom, absolutely needs the forum system and highlights to survive. Threads constitute the most active part of our community by a landslide, and they are necessary to keep it working.

      If there is any way to make an exception for Vs Battles, allowing our community to keep the ability to have multiple highlights, and not remove our forum system, I would be forever grateful. I want nothing more than to continue working to expand our community on the Fandom platform, but I'm afraid that it won't be possible to continue if things keep moving as they are now.

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    • Fandyllic wrote:

      Mira Laime wrote:

      ... we've not actually seen any communities having an issue with that limit.

      What is your criteria for determining this?

      I basically stopped using Announcements because of this limit. Eventually I will get around to making perpetual Announcement articles or blogs to point Announcements to, but that's yet one more thing I have to do that isn't high enough priority.

      In the very least it would be nice to have a Discussions specific announcement and then a general one. If you use your announcements for Discussions because it doesn't have highlight, you can't use it for anything else.

      As she mentioned earlier, very few communities who complained about the limit used announcements, and you likely used them and wanted a higher limit. Anyways, you can simply Special:Contact/feedback that to the staff.

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    • I am the most active bureaucrat in the VS Battles wiki. I have over 207000 Fandom edits, and have consistently worked for 10-12 hours every single day for more than 4 years, organising the growth of our community from being extremely obscure to what it is today with no financial payment whatsoever, and I strongly agree with Matthew. His analysis is most likely entirely correct.

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    • Submit your feedback through Special:Contact/feedback. That makes sure your feedback is ticketed, allows Staff to respond to your feedback properly, and will make your community be "seen" as a community that has an issue with this. Threads like these are meant for informing users of breaking changes and not so much for hearing their feedback.

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    • Normally, I would say I don't care, but judging from spam that admins committed because of that ability of highlighting unnecessary threads… That's why the current option seems better to me. One wiki, one highlighted message. Nothing else needed.

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    • Mustafar29 wrote: Normally, I would say I don't care, but judging from spam that admins committed because of that ability of highlighting unnecessary threads… That's why the current option seems better to me. One wiki, one highlighted message. Nothing else needed.

      As others have said before me, the VsBattles wiki has one of the most active forums on the entire network, with numerous important discussions going on at any given time. In my nearly 4 years of active service there, i've seen maybe two or three unnecessary highlights there.

      One size does not fit all. Punishing everyone for the spam done by a few is never a good thing to do.

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    • Darkanine wrote:

      Mustafar29 wrote: Normally, I would say I don't care, but judging from spam that admins committed because of that ability of highlighting unnecessary threads… That's why the current option seems better to me. One wiki, one highlighted message. Nothing else needed.

      As others have said before me, the VsBattles wiki has one of the most active forums on the entire network, with numerous important discussions going on at any given time. In my nearly 4 years of active service there, i've seen maybe two or three unnecessary highlights there.

      One size does not fit all. Punishing everyone for the spam done by a few is never a good thing to do.

      Agreed.

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    • While I fail to see a point for this retirement of features, I too will state that the VSBW community depends on communication with large groups of people to function happily.

      Highlights currently are used to give notifications about large revision projects, new revisions for specific verses, big community changes, and even staff retirements. Restricting this function would make it so practically nobody could remain informed at all times unless they constantly checked the singular notification thread you are giving us. 

      This retirement will purely lead to restriction, albeit more severe in communities like ours where the forums and a general coming together are our lifeblood. Wikis that are only sources of information likely do not need too many announcements- that's fine. However, we are a community. For all the positives and negatives of that word, we need highlights as they are now. 

      Thanks for reading if you ever really do. Cheers, from a poor and simple Discussion Moderator of the VS Battles Wiki. 

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    • Mira Laime wrote: We're open to possibly raising the "one announcement at a time" limit, if it's really necessary - but so far, we've not actually seen any communities having an issue with that limit. A number of admins have expressed their worries that one at a time isn't enough, but those are actually usually communities that haven't even started using Announcements yet.

      Isn't it kind of obvious that communities that are fine with the one announcement limit have started using announcements, and communities that aren't haven't started using it? This doesn't mean that the limit of one announcement isn't a problem.

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    • I don't honestly see how this benefits any wiki at all. From what I see, it hurts the majority of wikis that exist. So why get rid of it?

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    • KockaAdmiralac wrote:

      That makes sure your feedback is ticketed...

      Not sure how you can say this confidently. Your feedback is only ticketed if they give you a ticket number... even then...

      For anyone who knows how the software development process works, a bug/ticket ID is worthless without knowing the priority. If the priority is low... it might as well not even be filed.

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    • We're aware that the VS Battles Wiki uses highlights a lot - it may very well be the community that'll be impacted the most by this change. 

      The VS Battles community hasn't tried Announcements yet, though. Two Announcements were created back in the summer, but they haven't started conducting any of their wiki business using Announcements rather than forum highlights. We can only speculate how things will look after the forum highlights retirement. 

      If reactions to current news go down, e.g. there are fewer votes in voting threads, fewer comments than before on important debates, etc. then we'd have tangible proof that one Announcement at a time isn't enough to keep everyone informed. That'd be a very good reason to review the current limit. 

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    • This really isn't a case of an unruly child refusing to eat their vegetables in favor of the sweets that have been taken away from it. This is a case of taking away tools we are familiar with, tools that work, for new things we have no need for that very likely will be a detriment based on how you present it. 

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    • I do like this update. Since announcements is just like forum highlights, keeping both is pointless.

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    • To be honest, I'm not sure if this update is part of the Forum's slow removal, but for the highlighting feature, they could've just added a certain limit if there wasn't one. Though the limit should've been 3 highlights at once.

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    • While announcements and highlights might be nearly the same, discussions still don't support wikitext, which takes away some important features highlights tend to use (bold/italic text, colored text, etc).

      I just don't get why forums are being taken away seemingly piece by piece. Were highlights doing that much damage that they couldn't be left alone until forums were fully phased out? And what will communities use that don't have discussions yet? (CC itself is a prime example here)

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    • ΜΖD wrote: While announcements and highlights might be nearly the same, discussions still don't support wikitext, which takes away some important features highlights tend to use (bold/italic text, colored text, etc).

      Announcements have nothing to do with Discussions, though. You can announce literally any fandom.com/wikia.com URL.

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    • KockaAdmiralac wrote: You can announce literally any fandom.com/wikia.com URL.

      As long as you are an admin of the wiki you are trying to announce in, of course.

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    • Matthew Schroeder wrote: Hello. I'm an Administrator for the Vs Battles Wiki and I have a few concerns I'd like to raise regarding this development. Hope that they can be listed to.

      I personally think that this is a terrible idea, and very much a case of "trying to fix what isn't broke". Forum Highlights have worked well for countless communities for years on end, and taking it away would severely inconvenience the work of Administrators, who will now have to take multiple steps to do what they once could at the press of a button.

      I sincerely hope it's not late enough for Fandom to reconsider this decision.

      Continuing, there's a few more things I'd like to talk about...

      Mira Laime wrote:

      We're open to possibly raising the "one announcement at a time" limit, if it's really necessary - but so far, we've not actually seen any communities having an issue with that limit. A number of admins have expressed their worries that one at a time isn't enough, but those are actually usually communities that haven't even started using Announcements yet.

      (...)

      If your community is the exception and really needs more than one announcement at a time, and you have already tried Announcements for a while and found the limit to be a genuine problem - do please send us your example via Special:Contact!

      VSBW is one such Community. We have tried to use the Announcement System and found it to be worse than the Forum Highlight system we are accostumed to. Furthermore, our Community is set up in such a way that makes Forum Threads and Highlighted Threads an essential part of the experience, and vital for the continued survival and growth of our community.

      Far more so than any other Wiki I've seen, it's not unusual for there to be numerous threads with hundreds of posts going on simultaneously - often related to completely different subjects and featuring interactions from completely different people. The very broad nature of Vs Battles Wiki allows for fans of a wide number of series to discuss and have fun there, be them fans of anime and manga, western comicbooks, TV Shows such as Doctor Who, works of literature, tabletop games, live-action movies, video games, etc.

      So not only taking away Forum Highlights - But also restricting the ability to have multiple highlights at once, and eventually removing forums altogether would kill our community.

      It would be a severe blow that would hinder our community's ability to progress forward as strong as it is today. So when you say that you haven't heard about specific communities that depend on multiple highlights and forum threads, consider what I tell you.

      Vs Battles, one of the most popular and active communities in all of Fandom, absolutely needs the forum system and highlights to survive. Threads constitute the most active part of our community by a landslide, and they are necessary to keep it working.

      If there is any way to make an exception for Vs Battles, allowing our community to keep the ability to have multiple highlights, and not remove our forum system, I would be forever grateful. I want nothing more than to continue working to expand our community on the Fandom platform, but I'm afraid that it won't be possible to continue if things keep moving as they are now.

      I agree with you. The minecraft creepypasta, as well as the roblox creepypasta wiki needs it too.

      They would die out if taken away.

      Voca

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    • Wow! Finally!

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    • Mira Laime
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      16:54, December 12, 2018
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    • Anonminati
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      22:07, December 1, 2018
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    • I think these new changes are for mobile evolution.

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    • Reading the other posts, I think users are forgetting that Announcements are, for the most part, more flexible than Forum highlights. The primary issue, as far as I can tell, is the 1 announcement limit that Wikia has imposed. So far, that is the only downside that I can see.

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    • Andrewds1021 wrote:
      Reading the other posts, I think users are forgetting that Announcements are, for the most part, more flexible than Forum highlights. The primary issue, as far as I can tell, is the 1 announcement limit that Wikia has imposed. So far, that is the only downside that I can see.

      That's a rather tremendous issue with the new system, yes. 

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    • I happen to agree with you. However, that is what the debate is over. Different users have different opinions ranging from it being a major issue to it being the major benefit.

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    • Limiting oneself is not a benefit. It is simply a non-issue to some. 

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    • Andrewds1021 wrote: The primary issue, as far as I can tell, is the 1 announcement limit that Wikia has imposed. So far, that is the only downside that I can see.

      However, the advantage of the constraint is that abusive admins can no longer spam announcements too much. But I do agree that we should be able to make more than one announcement if utterly necessary.

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    • It's only a benefit if:

      1. You're part of a community which misuses highlights.

      2. That misuse of highlights annoys you.

      Why are we preventing staff of some communities from doing something very useful, simply to fix a minor annoyance due to incompetence from another community's staff?

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    • Agnaa wrote: It's only a benefit if:

      1. You're part of a community which misuses highlights.

      2. That misuse of highlights annoys you.

      Why are we preventing staff of some communities from doing something very useful, simply to fix a minor annoyance due to incompetence from another community's staff?

      First of all, I am not annoyed by multiple highlights and I am not a member of a community abusing highlights, I am just explaining a possible reason for those who ARE annoyed by possible abuse of the feature. Aside from that I do agree that it's a disadvantage that we can't have more than one announcement active at the same time.

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    • So the benefit is punishing people because of a few bad ones

      Nice. 

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    • Jody Bartosiewicz wrote: First of all, I am not annoyed by multiple highlights and I am not a member of a community abusing highlights, I am just explaining a possible reason for those who ARE annoyed by possible abuse of the feature. Aside from that I do agree that it's a disadvantage that we can't have more than one announcement active at the same time.

      I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you personally were annoyed by highlights or that you personally were part of a community abusing highlights.

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    • Agnaa wrote:

      Jody Bartosiewicz wrote: First of all, I am not annoyed by multiple highlights and I am not a member of a community abusing highlights, I am just explaining a possible reason for those who ARE annoyed by possible abuse of the feature. Aside from that I do agree that it's a disadvantage that we can't have more than one announcement active at the same time.

      I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you personally were annoyed by highlights or that you personally were part of a community abusing highlights.

      No, you don't have to apologize either, it's fine.

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    • no no no! keep highlights! i wont be able to make multiple announcements under announcements simultaneously! highlights is better since i can make multiple highlights! i promise i dont spam them! let me do multiple highlights!

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    • Ii-0sl0 wrote: no no no! keep highlights! i wont be able to make multiple announcements under announcements simultaneously! highlights is better since i can make multiple highlights! i promise i dont spam them! let me do multiple highlights!

      Too late. They've already made their final decision. I suggest you just use highlights until they are removed. And then switch to using announcements.

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    • C.Syde65 wrote:

      Ii-0sl0 wrote: no no no! keep highlights! i wont be able to make multiple announcements under announcements simultaneously! highlights is better since i can make multiple highlights! i promise i dont spam them! let me do multiple highlights!

      Too late. They've already made their final decision. I suggest you just use highlights until they are removed. And then switch to using announcements.

      tbh, it would problly be better to start using announcements now, so you can get used to them before you have to use them.

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    • Sophiedp wrote:

      C.Syde65 wrote:

      Ii-0sl0 wrote: no no no! keep highlights! i wont be able to make multiple announcements under announcements simultaneously! highlights is better since i can make multiple highlights! i promise i dont spam them! let me do multiple highlights!

      Too late. They've already made their final decision. I suggest you just use highlights until they are removed. And then switch to using announcements.

      tbh, it would problly be better to start using announcements now, so you can get used to them before you have to use them.

      Indeed. I was just thinking that myself. I just wasn't sure if they wanted to use announcements before they had to use them.

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    • Sophiedp wrote:

      C.Syde65 wrote:

      Ii-0sl0 wrote: no no no! keep highlights! i wont be able to make multiple announcements under announcements simultaneously! highlights is better since i can make multiple highlights! i promise i dont spam them! let me do multiple highlights!

      Too late. They've already made their final decision. I suggest you just use highlights until they are removed. And then switch to using announcements.

      tbh, it would problly be better to start using announcements now, so you can get used to them before you have to use them.

      What a genius logic.

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    • Will message walls be left?

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    • For now, yes.

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    • As will article comments and blog comments; if I am not mistaken. I am guessing those use a similar if not the same system.

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    • Andrewds1021 wrote:
      As will article comments and blog comments; if I am not mistaken. I am guessing those use a similar if not the same system.

      You're not mistaken: We are not making any changes to article comments, message walls or blog comments with the removal of forum highlights, nor are we removing these features from any wikis (although of course admins can decide to switch them off for their own communities).

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    • Mira Laime wrote: We're open to possibly raising the "one announcement at a time" limit, if it's really necessary - but so far, we've not actually seen any communities having an issue with that limit. A number of admins have expressed their worries that one at a time isn't enough, but those are actually usually communities that haven't even started using Announcements yet.

      Very few communities have so much going on at once that they'd need more than one new announcement every couple of days. On the contrary - too many have several highlights going on at all times, causing community members to start ignoring them. If you can have only one news item at a time in your community members' notifications, they'll know that one is important, and be much more likely to pay attention to it.

      Exactly how many wikis are exclusively using the new Announcement system, and what are they using it for? Because I know that it's not good enough for Community Central, and I haven't seen it in wide use elsewhere. BTW- The new announcements can also be just as abused as the old forum highlights (more so in fact).

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    • why cant discussions be turned off? i cant find it in features. looks like its mandatory feature that must be on wiki. if so thats awful i should be able to disable anything i want

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    • @Vandraedha: We're not tracking the number of communities that have created an Announcement before or currently have one active. The feature is available on every single community, though, regardless of whether they have forums, Discussions, both, or neither.

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    • Mira Laime wrote: @Vandraedha: We're not tracking the number of communities that have created an Announcement before or currently have one active. The feature is available on every single community, though, regardless of whether they have forums, Discussions, both, or neither.

      Then I don't know how you can state that the new Announcements are a better or more effective way of doing things if you can't name even one wiki where they are being used exclusively?

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    • The company is not tracking it. That doesn’t mean they aren’t being used. For instance, The Elder Scrolls Wiki has been exclusively using announcements since July. They work fine. I anticipated that the single-announcement limit would be an issue, but it actually hasn’t been problematic at all.

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    • "Discussions moderators as well as admins." - Why is this highlighted as a difference? Forums can be highlighted by Discussions Mods and Admins.

      "Only one announcement can be active per community at any one time."

      - I think this is a very bad move. Many wikis announce votes for new staff members by highlighting a central thread with the announcement and highlight applications. A fix to this could be a compiled page with them listed, but we'd have to create a new announcement each time someone opened a thread to run.

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    • Jackboog21 wrote: "Discussions moderators as well as admins." - Why is this highlighted as a difference? Forums can be highlighted by Discussions Mods and Admins.

      "Only one announcement can be active per community at any one time."

      - I think this is a very bad move. Many wikis announce votes for new staff members by highlighting a central thread with the announcement and highlight applications. A fix to this could be a compiled page with them listed, but we'd have to create a new announcement each time someone opened a thread to run.

      At least you don't have to open any thread to make an announcement with. You can use any page, even a normal article.

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    • There were tons of ways to feature normal articles already. This change just saves a single click and limits the number of highlights.

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    • For what its worth, Forums were useful for larger communities. The boards were pretty nice. So was highlights. For annoucements, I think it can be modified to include options. For example, I can choose to notify people who edited in 1 month, 2 months, or 4 months in addition of the default 3 months.

      and perhaps notifiy everyone who visits.



      Its been a long ride for forums.

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    • Like other users have said on this thread, I agree with the fact that the number of announcements going on should be raised. I personally think the max. should be 2-3 announcements at a time.

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    • Meow2BowWow wrote: Like other users have said on this thread, I agree with the fact that the number of announcements going on should be raised. I personally think the max. should be 2-3 announcements at a time.

      Since the Forum pages are unarchived in the Creepypasta Files Wiki, I can make more than 1 announcement by using a forum page that I made called News and Announcements.

      When I need to make more than 1 announcement, I use that forum page and put my announcements on the page, then I use the announcement feature to announce my announcements.

      It's really easy, but I do agree that the limit of announcements sure be raised.

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    • Some of the Wikis I manage sometimes don't even have forums, though. The Unofficial Geometry Dash Wiki, for instance.

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    • Meow2BowWow wrote: Some of the Wikis I manage sometimes don't even have forums, though. The Unofficial Geometry Dash Wiki, for instance.

      The Creepypasta Files Wiki has Discussions. Never had forums.

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    • I don’t like this, announcements for me have been harder as a discussion mod on the Once Upon A Time Wiki, I had to look up how to do it and I don’t remember where it is on the admin dashboard, while with forum highlights there’s a button if you make the thread and it’s on the drop down list if not, nice and intuitive. I also know that the Arrowverse wiki has several highlights at once, each one for the discussion of an episode and since Legends and Arrow comes out on the same day they can’t both be highlighted, with several active at once, and having more than one means that if I’m behind (which I often am), I can easily get to the ones from a few days ago which I can’t with announcements.

      Also Discussion Mods can totally highlight forum threads, I don’t know what you’re talking about on that.

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    • I don’t like the limit.

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    • Neither do I to be honest.

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    • I like Forum Highlights better. Discussions are kinda hard to use... But I can always use blogs to make announcements though.

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    • ArthurFistMeme wrote: I like Forum Highlights better. Discussions are kinda hard to use... But I can always use blogs to make announcements though.

      You can use announcements with a thread link too?

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    • Sophiedp wrote:

      ArthurFistMeme wrote: I like Forum Highlights better. Discussions are kinda hard to use... But I can always use blogs to make announcements though.

      You can use announcements with a thread link too?

      Oh. I didn't think of that...

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    • Sophiedp wrote:

      ArthurFistMeme wrote: I like Forum Highlights better. Discussions are kinda hard to use... But I can always use blogs to make announcements though.

      You can use announcements with a thread link too?

      Yes, you can link an Announcement to absolutely anywhere on the wiki, including a forum thread or entire board. 

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    • As stated above, it's really annoying that there is a limit of 1 announcement at a time. I'm an administrator from the Roblox Wikia, and a lot of stuff (game updates, wiki updates, etc etc) happen at one time. It's really limiting when we have to remove a previous announcement that's only been up for a short amount of days to put another more important one up. Both announcements are important, but we're limited to one.

      I would say three announcements should be the max at a time rather than one. Often times I've wished I could have three but could only have one. Batching announcements into one post typically works, but occasionally we announce an update and then something more important happens and we have to announce again

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    • 3 or 5 are a perfectly reasonable amount of announcements. Perhaps instead of notifying users of all of them if they aren't on the Wiki, they instead just get one notification saying there's multiple ones on the Wiki.

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    • Jackboog21 wrote: 3 or 5 are a perfectly reasonable amount of announcements. Perhaps instead of notifying users of all of them if they aren't on the Wiki, they instead just get one notification saying there's multiple ones on the Wiki.

      Another thing that would probably work would be to have a system of batching them together where users only receive one notification but it will say "X new announcements". Clicking on this message would result in an effect similar to a collapsible, where it opened up to reveal a notification for each announcement.

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    • That is an interesting idea. But then users would probably also want a way to choose which announcement gets displayed.

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    • Thundermaker300 wrote: Another thing that would probably work would be to have a system of batching them together where users only receive one notification but it will say "X new announcements". Clicking on this message would result in an effect similar to a collapsible, where it opened up to reveal a notification for each announcement.

      Interesting. That's kind of how Wikipedia's notification system works at the moment.

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    • It is also sort-of how the Forum notifications work currently. Just, instead of displaying the wiki name, one of the notifications is displayed.

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    • How about imposing a limit to the number of highlighted forums instead of destroying it all together? That would be a more sensible solution, right? You know that it's a bad idea to force users to move from an already established discussment structure (in the case of Forums, known for its respectable categorization separation structure) to a completely new one (in the case of Discussions).

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    • Announcements essentially serves the same purpose as the Highlight feature, so I'm cool with it being retired. But if that's the case, Announcements needs to be more flexible with how many can be made. One at a time doesn't work well for my community.

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    • Killer kev wrote: Announcements essentially serves the same purpose as the Highlight feature, so I'm cool with it being retired. But if that's the case, Announcements needs to be more flexible with how many can be made. One at a time doesn't work well for my community.

      Up to three would be more appropriate, will it?

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    • Maybe separate announcements for Articles and Forums etc?

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    • Qwertyxp2000 the second wrote:

      Killer kev wrote: Announcements essentially serves the same purpose as the Highlight feature, so I'm cool with it being retired. But if that's the case, Announcements needs to be more flexible with how many can be made. One at a time doesn't work well for my community.

      Up to three would be more appropriate, will it?

      Sounds good to me

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    • Wait, can you also do this with normal pages?

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    • yes, any url on the wiki

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    • Banarama wrote:
      yes, any url on the wiki

      That's pretty cool actually.

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    • Qwertyxp2000 the second wrote: How about imposing a limit to the number of highlighted forums instead of destroying it all together? That would be a more sensible solution, right? ...

      Mira Laime wrote: ... Forum highlights are in the way of us revamping notifications as a whole. ...

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    • Why instead of doing the "you get one and if you want more, contact fandom staff" thing not make it a setting for the bureaucrat(s) of a wiki and default the setting to 1?

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    • SDMarukokun wrote:
      Why instead of doing the "you get one and if you want more, contact fandom staff" thing not make it a setting for the bureaucrat(s) of a wiki and default the setting to 1?

      To clarify: Even Fandom staff can't raise the limit to more than 1 Announcement at a time. This limitation is built into the feature.

      Our theory is that the vast majority of communities (if not all) can get by with only 1 Announcement, and that having only one will make sure admins consider carefully what is news-worthy and what is not. We think it will reduce notification overload for active users and put a stronger spotlight on those announcements that are noteworthy. 

      If there is evidence that our theory is wrong and this limit genuinly hurts communities, then we'd like to know. That's why we ask users to contact us if they have tried Announcements and still found it lacking. And just to be clear: Evidence in this case doesn't mean "my community always had multiple forum highlights, so having just one could never work". It means "We switched to Announcements, used it exclusively for a while to keep our community updated, and here is how we know that this isn't working ..."

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    • May I ask why it was baked into the feature, rather than making it a permissions-based restriction so that in obvious case-by-case situations, FANDOM might be able to produce more than one? Wouldn’t that allow for more flexible decision-making down the road?

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    • I honestly don't see the logic behind 1. Do you only read a newspaper with 1 story? Does Youtube restrict you to only subscribe to 1 person?

      You may think you're simplifying things, but you're actually making them FAR harder for admins to inform users of stuff. I'm willing to accept a limit, but not of 1. 3-5, like everyone has said, is very reasonable.

      "the vast majority of communities" - Sure, the majority...does this include the 100s of abandoned wikis with no activity?

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    • Jackboog21 wrote: I honestly don't see the logic behind 1. Do you only read a newspaper with 1 story? Does Youtube restrict you to only subscribe to 1 person?

      You may think you're simplifying things, but you're actually making them FAR harder for admins to inform users of stuff. I'm willing to accept a limit, but not of 1. 3-5, like everyone has said, is very reasonable.

      A newspaper has many pieces, but there is only one cover story. I think that's the purpose of announcements. When you think about it, you don't actually need to highlight that many threads. On Elder Scrolls, we have a system of weekly updates which cover pretty much everything that users need to be aware of. I was skeptical about the limit when we adopted announcements, but we actually haven't had any announcements other than the announcement announcing announcements, and subsequent weekly updates. I suspect most communities will be able to do something similar if they really need to highlight like five threads at once.

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    • Ursuul wrote:
      May I ask why it was baked into the feature, rather than making it a permissions-based restriction so that in obvious case-by-case situations, FANDOM might be able to produce more than one? Wouldn’t that allow for more flexible decision-making down the road?

      It would have taken quite a bit more time to implement, and the feature would have come out later, delaying other things that were lined up to be developed next. 

      Since we didn't think (and we still haven't seen any evidence to the opposite) that more than one Announcement at a time is necessary, we didn't invest extra time in building options to change this on a case-by-case basis.

      Plus, as this thread shows, many communities switch to Announcements (if they switch at all) with the mindset that this is simply the replacement of forum highlights, but that doesn't do the feature justice. 

      Announcements differ from forum highlights in more ways than many users realize. Announcements are more visible, stay around longer (30 instead of 7 days) and are less restrictive in terms of content that they can point to. If you were to try and use them exactly like you did forum highlights, all you would notice are the restrictions (or rather, the restriction, because the "1 at a time" limit is the only one), and not take advantage of everythign that Announcements does better. 

      That doesn't mean that we think Announcements is perfect and has no room for improvement - it does. Before we do that, though, we want to first find out what users are really missing, and not just what they think they're missing before even giving Announcements a try. 

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    • You act as though you've re-invented highlighting a thread, and that we can't possibly fathom how amazing announcements are if we haven't tried them.

      It's not complicated to understand, do you think we're 5?

      So it can also highlight a page, cool, but pretty useless. It can highlight a blog? There's some use for that. It stays longer, so? Heck, a week was pretty sufficient. It can highlight a thread? Good, that's what we want. Can I get an order with 4 extra, please?

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    • Mira Laime wrote:

      Since we didn't think (and we still haven't seen any evidence to the opposite) that more than one Announcement at a time is necessary...

      So, I guess admins telling you they aren't using Announcements because of the one-at-a-time restriction doesn't count as "evidence"... Not sure what you count as evidence is rational.

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    • There is a difference between "I haven't tried it, but I hate it" (which is still a valid opinion, but not helpful to us) and "We've been using Announcements for a while, and here is how we noticed it's not doing its job: ..."

      You showing us in what way this limitation has negative consequences is information we can act on (e.g. fewer votes on a type of vote that, with highlights, would have received more, or posts by confused users who clearly missed important news). 

      Even if you have no concrete numbers or results to point to, your input is still more valuable after you've tried the feature - similar to how you can justifiably hate a book based on its premise alone, but you can write a much more impactful review after you've actually read it yourself. 

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    • Vocaloid Rin wrote: The Creepypasta Files Wiki has Discussions. Never had forums.

      (Oh jeez, I lost track of this conversation and it took a while to find your reply.)

      In that case, I'll explore that Wiki and find out what you were talking about.

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    • Just saw the Announcements page, and I must say, it works pretty handy with the Announcement feature.

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    • Thundermaker300 wrote: As stated above, it's really annoying that there is a limit of 1 announcement at a time. I'm an administrator from the Roblox Wikia, and a lot of stuff (game updates, wiki updates, etc etc) happen at one time. It's really limiting when we have to remove a previous announcement that's only been up for a short amount of days to put another more important one up. Both announcements are important, but we're limited to one.

      I would say three announcements should be the max at a time rather than one. Often times I've wished I could have three but could only have one. Batching announcements into one post typically works, but occasionally we announce an update and then something more important happens and we have to announce again

      I feel there should be the same number as there was for threaded forums. Discssions is basically a successor to threaded forums after all.

        Loading editor
    • Mira Laime wrote:

      ...your input is still more valuable after you've tried the feature...

      So you're assuming the admins who don't like it haven't tried it? Well you're totally wrong for this admin.

      • I've tried it, and the limit of 1 is really annoying.
      • There needs to be a quicker way to get to it than Admin Dashboard... how about addable as a tool you can add to the bottom customizable toolbar?
      • The 100 char limit seems arbitrary... like Twitter.
      • You shouldn't have to expire an announcement to do a new one... if you make a new one, it should just have an OK and Cancel with a warning that the previous one will be expired.
      • Announcements need to besegregated from all the other notifications... they get lost easily.
      • If I were to start using it regularly, I'd probably just make two announcement pages and flip between them, so I could announce more than one thing and to make sure it doesn't just ignor the URL, because it hasn't changed.

      Is that enough feedback?

        Loading editor
    • C.Syde65 wrote:

      Thundermaker300 wrote: As stated above, it's really annoying that there is a limit of 1 announcement at a time. I'm an administrator from the Roblox Wikia, and a lot of stuff (game updates, wiki updates, etc etc) happen at one time. It's really limiting when we have to remove a previous announcement that's only been up for a short amount of days to put another more important one up. Both announcements are important, but we're limited to one.

      I would say three announcements should be the max at a time rather than one. Often times I've wished I could have three but could only have one. Batching announcements into one post typically works, but occasionally we announce an update and then something more important happens and we have to announce again

      I feel there should be the same number as there was for threaded forums. Discssions is basically a successor to threaded forums after all.

      uh, pretty sure thats not a good idea.

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    • Each to their own.

        Loading editor
    • KockaAdmiralac wrote:
      Not that I mind it, but why is specifically the highlight feature being retired if the whole Forum feature is planned for retiring anyways?

      If I may ask, where did you hear about that? Can you link me there?

        Loading editor
    • Omegasonic2000 wrote:

      KockaAdmiralac wrote:
      Not that I mind it, but why is specifically the highlight feature being retired if the whole Forum feature is planned for retiring anyways?

      If I may ask, where did you hear about that? Can you link me there?

      I'm not kocka, but see Help:Forum

        Loading editor
    • Do you realize that THIS is a forum? We wouldn't use THIS if you were to cancel it. This is my only reason, besides so many random use so many forums. Thanks and bye.

      -ninjagoguineapigs

        Loading editor
    • It is just the highlight feature that is disappearing next Tuesday. Forums itself is still being converted at the gradual rate it was before.

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    • Andrewds1021 wrote: It is just the highlight feature that is disappearing next Tuesday. Forums itself is still being converted at the gradual rate it was before.

      Just highlight feature. But as you said, Forums is gradually discontinuing at the gradual rate you described.

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    • Fandyllic wrote:

      Mira Laime wrote: ...your input is still more valuable after you've tried the feature...

      So you're assuming the admins who don't like it haven't tried it? Well you're totally wrong for this admin.
      • I've tried it, and the limit of 1 is really annoying.
        * There needs to be a quicker way to get to it than Admin Dashboard... how about addable as a tool you can add to the bottom customizable toolbar?
        * The 100 char limit seems arbitrary... like Twitter.
        * You shouldn't have to expire an announcement to do a new one... if you make a new one, it should just have an OK and Cancel with a warning that the previous one will be expired.
        * Announcements need to besegregated from all the other notifications... they get lost easily.
        * If I were to start using it regularly, I'd probably just make two announcement pages and flip between them, so I could announce more than one thing and to make sure it doesn't just ignor the URL, because it hasn't changed.
      Is that enough feedback?


      That is exactly the kind of feedback that we can work with, all the more valuable because you've been using Announcements and are giving specifics. 

      I've passed your suggestions on to the team. Especially your point about the management page not being accessible enough is something we've already been thinking about and discussed some ideas how to make that better. 

        Loading editor
    • wow nice job, now we have to dig through the fourms to find our jackpot fourm.

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    • Lonixdron2.0 wrote:
      wow nice job, now we have to dig through the fourms to find our jackpot fourm.

      have you like, considered making a page that lists all the important forums? it accomplishes the same.

        Loading editor
    • The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:

      Lonixdron2.0 wrote:
      wow nice job, now we have to dig through the fourms to find our jackpot fourm.

      have you like, considered making a page that lists all the important forums? it accomplishes the same.

      or a board, or a /d category?

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    • Terrible feature for certain communities. Some communities can't use the new feature because of the fact only ONLINE and ACTIVE members can see them. Great, now new users will further be deterred from my community...


      Good job, FANDOM. 

        Loading editor
    • JoeBee James wrote:
      Terrible feature for certain communities. Some communities can't use the new feature because of the fact only ONLINE and ACTIVE members can see them. Great, now new users will further be deterred from my community...


      Good job, FANDOM. 

      Oh, and also, highlights were much more innovative, showing the OP of the thread and all. But now, we have none of that...

        Loading editor
    • Mira Laime wrote:
      This year, we released Announcements, a new tool for admins and moderators to notify their community members about important news.

      Since they are now no longer needed for this purpose, we will be retiring Forum highlights. Our target date for this is mid-December.

      That means, admins will no longer have the ability to highlight a forum thread to generate notifications to everyone who is visiting their community. Highlights that are already active will continue to be displayed until their default display time of one week is over.

      What’s different about Announcements

      • Announcements can be created by Discussions moderators as well as admins.
      • An announcement notification can link not just to a Discussions thread, but to any type of content on the wiki - article pages, blog posts, message walls, etc.
      • Announcements generate notifications that all recently active community members will see regardless of where they are on FANDOM.
      • Announcement expire after 30 days unless they are manually expired sooner.
      • Only one announcement can be active per community at any one time.

      You can find more details about Announcements on the Announcements help page.

      What if I have more than one thing about which I want to notify my community?

      If you have multiple things you’d like your community to notice, we recommend creating a blog or article page where you list what is currently noteworthy on the wiki. You can create a new announcement whenever a new item is added.

      That way, your users will get notified without being flooded with multiple announcement notifications from all their communities.

      Also also, please make this an option. We don't need to have your terrible features on our site because they're automatically "better".

        Loading editor
    • We should have a limit tbh remembers wiki highlighting almost 20 threads at once

        Loading editor
    • The Warframe wiki is already prepping to leave fandom due to all the terrible features

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    • JoeBee James wrote:
      Mira Laime wrote:
      This year, we released Announcements, a new tool for admins and moderators to notify their community members about important news.

      Since they are now no longer needed for this purpose, we will be retiring Forum highlights. Our target date for this is mid-December.

      That means, admins will no longer have the ability to highlight a forum thread to generate notifications to everyone who is visiting their community. Highlights that are already active will continue to be displayed until their default display time of one week is over.

      What’s different about Announcements

      • Announcements can be created by Discussions moderators as well as admins.
      • An announcement notification can link not just to a Discussions thread, but to any type of content on the wiki - article pages, blog posts, message walls, etc.
      • Announcements generate notifications that all recently active community members will see regardless of where they are on FANDOM.
      • Announcement expire after 30 days unless they are manually expired sooner.
      • Only one announcement can be active per community at any one time.

      You can find more details about Announcements on the Announcements help page.

      What if I have more than one thing about which I want to notify my community?

      If you have multiple things you’d like your community to notice, we recommend creating a blog or article page where you list what is currently noteworthy on the wiki. You can create a new announcement whenever a new item is added.

      That way, your users will get notified without being flooded with multiple announcement notifications from all their communities.

      Also also, please make this an option. We don't need to have your terrible features on our site because they're automatically "better".

      Agreed. But if we lose our forums we'll have no way to notify users.

      I think the limit should be upped to 3.

        Loading editor
    • My community would probably need to be able to highlight around 6-7 threads at once to stay on the safe side.

        Loading editor
    • I don't think it makes sense for Announcements to list a user since the link can be to anything, not just Forum threads. Also, I am not sure how notifying non-active users would serve any purpose. Although, I do agree with an earlier comment that being able to choose the threshold for what is considered "active" might be useful.

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    • Antvasima wrote: My community would probably need to be able to highlight around 6-7 threads at once to stay on the safe side.

      You do know nobody actually reads those, right? The only thing people click if they see that is Mark All as Read.

        Loading editor
    • Actually, most of the community does read them. Don't generalize every wiki just because a few do not. That's never productive.

        Loading editor
    • Darkanine wrote: Actually, most of the community does read them. Don't generalize every wiki just because a few do not. That's never productive.

      Beyond a "core" of powerusers who can really identify with a particular wiki's practices, that logic cannot really be applied to highlights. The vast majority of users do not and will never read every highlight in a list of more than one or perhaps two; that's just statistics. The powerusers who would are the kinds of people who will find these things no matter what, even if that means grouping what would otherwise be several highlights into a single announcement.

        Loading editor
    • Once again, PLEASE make this a toggle-able option. This is why lots of wikis leave your site, you know...

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    • Atvelonis wrote:

      Darkanine wrote: Actually, most of the community does read them. Don't generalize every wiki just because a few do not. That's never productive.

      Beyond a "core" of powerusers who can really identify with a particular wiki's practices, that logic cannot really be applied to highlights. The vast majority of users do not and will never read every highlight in a list of more than one or perhaps two; that's just statistics. The powerusers who would are the kinds of people who will find these things no matter what, even if that means grouping what would otherwise be several highlights into a single announcement.

      And should a wikis built-in features not be used to cater to those who actually do work and get themselves involved into the community? We make content for those people, we expect some features to make community organization easier, and forum highlighting has proven to be consistently useful on the various "Battle Board" wikis at doing just that.

        Loading editor
    • JoeBee James wrote:
      Once again, PLEASE make this a toggle-able option. This is why lots of wikis leave your site, you know...

      and they're about to reacquire a ton of them 

        Loading editor
    • JoeBee James wrote:
      Once again, PLEASE make this a toggle-able option. This is why lots of wikis leave your site, you know...

      I do not know why this is not brought up, if you want the userbase to benefit from this, you should give them self-determination for their own wiki instead of forcing it and act like you are the order, give people the option to contact FANDOM and let them have a say in if they want highlights or announcements, it will benefit our wiki's and others but that is not in their definition.

        Loading editor
    • The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:
      JoeBee James wrote:
      Once again, PLEASE make this a toggle-able option. This is why lots of wikis leave your site, you know...
      and they're about to reacquire a ton of them 

      Reacquire? More like forcing them into submission, JoeBee makes a good point, why do wiki's want to stay here if they know FANDOM does not let them make their own decisions, seems like the definition of colonialism in my book, or having partial or full power in terms of the politics, though I am just making a similar reference to this.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, Mandroid, reacquire. Curse hosted so many forked wikis that are now coming back home.....
      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/jul/31/wikipedia
      FANDOM has been criticised for digital sharecropping for over a decade. Guess what, people still come on here and make their wikis. FANDOM was created so that wikis could be easily created. What can users really expect for a service they aren't paying a dime for? Total control?

        Loading editor
    • The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:
      Yes, Mandroid, reacquire. Curse hosted so many forked wikis that are now coming back home.....


      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/jul/31/wikipedia
      FANDOM has been criticised for digital sharecropping for over a decade. Guess what, people still come on here and make their wikis. FANDOM was created so that wikis could be easily created. What can users really expect for a service they aren't paying a dime for? Total control?

      Bad mentality....

        Loading editor
    • JoeBee James wrote:
      The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:
      Yes, Mandroid, reacquire. Curse hosted so many forked wikis that are now coming back home.....


      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/jul/31/wikipedia
      FANDOM has been criticised for digital sharecropping for over a decade. Guess what, people still come on here and make their wikis. FANDOM was created so that wikis could be easily created. What can users really expect for a service they aren't paying a dime for? Total control?

      Bad mentality....

      What's wrong with calling out FANDOM for digital sharecropping? If communities want to fork, let them fork. It's a perfect and foolproof way to avoid the controlling hand of FANDOM. Or at least it usually is. The whole Curse debacle is quite the exception.

        Loading editor
    • The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:
      Yes, Mandroid, reacquire. Curse hosted so many forked wikis that are now coming back home.....


      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/jul/31/wikipedia
      FANDOM has been criticised for digital sharecropping for over a decade. Guess what, people still come on here and make their wikis. FANDOM was created so that wikis could be easily created. What can users really expect for a service they aren't paying a dime for? Total control?

      What you have listed is a old article, sharecropping is true in terms of the fact that FANDOM treats their users similar to what we see with workers being forced on a plantation, aka slavery and being forced to succumb to their decisions, but just because we don't pay a dime, we are working our own communities for free, and each one needs to be respected with what they think is best for their wiki.

      But it is a little too far that the corporate decides every wiki needs to follow into their demands, let Forum 1.0 and 2.0 be a option, and let announcements or highlights be one too, that way people can be happy with what best suits their wiki, we cannot just force a bunch of features no one agrees with into people's mouths.

      Lets say we we all had sovereignty for example, do you think having a stronger force make decisions for your own people and exploiting your land going to make them all positive and joyful, you better hope not, so in this case, the community is the one who built their own wiki and FANDOM has no right to say what is best for them or thinking their corporate decisions will benefit them greatly despite that community having to refuse several times.

        Loading editor
    • The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:
      JoeBee James wrote:
      The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:
      Yes, Mandroid, reacquire. Curse hosted so many forked wikis that are now coming back home.....


      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/jul/31/wikipedia
      FANDOM has been criticised for digital sharecropping for over a decade. Guess what, people still come on here and make their wikis. FANDOM was created so that wikis could be easily created. What can users really expect for a service they aren't paying a dime for? Total control?

      Bad mentality....
      What's wrong with calling out FANDOM for digital sharecropping? If communities want to fork, let them fork. It's a perfect and foolproof way to avoid the controlling hand of FANDOM. Or at least it usually is. The whole Curse debacle is quite the exception.

      No, I'm talking about you saying just because the service is free the one providing it should treat users like shit...

        Loading editor
    • Mandroid543 wrote:

      The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:
      Yes, Mandroid, reacquire. Curse hosted so many forked wikis that are now coming back home.....


      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/jul/31/wikipedia
      FANDOM has been criticised for digital sharecropping for over a decade. Guess what, people still come on here and make their wikis. FANDOM was created so that wikis could be easily created. What can users really expect for a service they aren't paying a dime for? Total control?

      What you have listed is a old article, sharecropping is true in terms of the fact that FANDOM treats their users similar to what we see with workers being forced on a plantation, aka slavery and being forced to succumb to their decisions, but just because we don't pay a dime, we are working our own communities for free, and each one needs to be respected with what they think is best for their wiki.

      But it is a little too far that the corporate decides every wiki needs to follow into their demands, let Forum 1.0 and 2.0 be a option, and let announcements or highlights be one too, that way people can be happy with what best suits their wiki, we cannot just force a bunch of features no one agrees with into people's mouths.

      Lets say we we all had sovereignty for example, do you think having a stronger force make decisions for your own people and exploiting your land going to make them all positive and joyful, you better hope not, so in this case, the community is the one who built their own wiki and FANDOM has no right to say what is best for them or thinking their corporate decisions will benefit them greatly despite that community having to refuse several times.

      I sent a negative feedback about the highlight and forum retirement and stated that we (as in all wikis) should have both forums and discussions.

      That's a win-win deal right there, but Sean basically denied it.

      (insult alert!)

      Honestly, FANDOM staff needs to get their stuff together and do their job right by making polls/votes on this kind of stuff and let us users vote.

      They're retiring the forums since the forums are (basically) not app campatible and are diffcult to use on mobile.

      I'm on mobile right now and the forums are perfectly fine. The discussions, on the otherhand, are being diffcult to use as I can't leave comments.

        Loading editor
    • Darkanine wrote:

      Atvelonis wrote:

      Darkanine wrote: Actually, most of the community does read them. Don't generalize every wiki just because a few do not. That's never productive.

      Beyond a "core" of powerusers who can really identify with a particular wiki's practices, that logic cannot really be applied to highlights. The vast majority of users do not and will never read every highlight in a list of more than one or perhaps two; that's just statistics. The powerusers who would are the kinds of people who will find these things no matter what, even if that means grouping what would otherwise be several highlights into a single announcement.

      And should a wikis built-in features not be used to cater to those who actually do work and get themselves involved into the community? We make content for those people, we expect some features to make community organization easier, and forum highlighting has proven to be consistently useful on the various "Battle Board" wikis at doing just that.

      Darkanine is entirely correct. In our case, highlighting threads almost always gathers a lot more necessary community participation for important topics.

      We are a community that entirely revolves around constant discussions to get anything done, and it is a much more efficient way to get people knowledgeable about a certain important topic to contribute with their input.

        Loading editor
    • Vocaloid Rin wrote:

      Mandroid543 wrote:

      The Last Booker DeWitt wrote:
      Yes, Mandroid, reacquire. Curse hosted so many forked wikis that are now coming back home.....


      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/jul/31/wikipedia
      FANDOM has been criticised for digital sharecropping for over a decade. Guess what, people still come on here and make their wikis. FANDOM was created so that wikis could be easily created. What can users really expect for a service they aren't paying a dime for? Total control?

      What you have listed is a old article, sharecropping is true in terms of the fact that FANDOM treats their users similar to what we see with workers being forced on a plantation, aka slavery and being forced to succumb to their decisions, but just because we don't pay a dime, we are working our own communities for free, and each one needs to be respected with what they think is best for their wiki.

      But it is a little too far that the corporate decides every wiki needs to follow into their demands, let Forum 1.0 and 2.0 be a option, and let announcements or highlights be one too, that way people can be happy with what best suits their wiki, we cannot just force a bunch of features no one agrees with into people's mouths.

      Lets say we we all had sovereignty for example, do you think having a stronger force make decisions for your own people and exploiting your land going to make them all positive and joyful, you better hope not, so in this case, the community is the one who built their own wiki and FANDOM has no right to say what is best for them or thinking their corporate decisions will benefit them greatly despite that community having to refuse several times.

      I sent a negative feedback about the highlight and forum retirement and stated that we (as in all wikis) should have both forums and discussions.

      That's a win-win deal right there, but Sean basically denied it.

      (insult alert!)

      Honestly, FANDOM staff needs to get their stuff together and do their job right by making polls/votes on this kind of stuff and let us users vote.

      They're retiring the forums since the forums are (basically) not app campatible and are diffcult to use on mobile.

      I'm on mobile right now and the forums are perfectly fine. The discussions, on the otherhand, are being diffcult to use as I can't leave comments.

      Also, FANDOM will deny that right just so they can remove people's self determination, and will reply with nonsense answers, they will arguably be if ever on the wrong side of this argument, also their Requiance just means more control over other wiki's.

        Loading editor
    • The users already want to leave due to the site being unusable on mobile, and horrible on desktop. Annoy the power users too, and you will see a mass exodus.

        Loading editor
    • Antvasima wrote: Darkanine is entirely correct. In our case, highlighting threads almost always gathers a lot more necessary community participation for important topics. ...

      Do you have any actual numbers or have you at least tried Announcements?

        Loading editor
    • No, we will try it once the highlights are retired, in lack of other options, but from a rational viewpoint it isn't nearly as convenient for informing and engaging our community.

        Loading editor
    • As someone who is a fan of Forum, I am not a big fan of the new system either. However, as Mira Laime has previously stated, staff are looking for arguments based more on actual experience than theorizing. Okay, that is fair. So once you switch, if you guys see a significant decrease in the response rate, that would be a much more convincing argument.

        Loading editor
    • I suppose so.

        Loading editor
    • My wiki won't get much use out of it since I am about the only one still active. Nonetheless, I finally decided to test it out. In addition to the other suggestions already mentioned in this thread, here are some more.

      1. Fix for IE11. The page will display but nothing works.
      2. Fix for message systems. Neither the new notification system, the message wall/forum notification system, nor the message bubbles (not sure what these are actually called) work while on the announcements page. The new notification system dropdown shows but is non-functional. The other two systems don't even display.
      3. Would it be possible to turn the "Sent to # users" test into a link that displays a list of the users it was sent to? Might be useful if one wants to see if specific users have received the notification.
      4. Since only internal/interwiki links are allowed, how about allowing use of the internal/interwiki link syntax rather than requiring a full URL? If I recall correctly, this could also apply to Discussions as well. Although, I suppose one potential benefit of the current system is that you can link to pages not under "/wiki". For example, you can link to api.php results.

      Edit:

      Also, perhaps there could be a way for normal/anonymous users to view past announcements if they want?

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    • If discussions are so good, yet the majority of users don’t want them, why aren’t users able to choose between discussions and forums for their wikis? I have tried discussions, and the only advantage of it is that you can lock posts. In my opinion, users should be able to choose between forums and discussions. If the wiki does not enable forums, then it would disable highlights. So why can’t we choose?

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    • Forums aren't as good as people think they are. Sure, they may fit your needs, but under the hood, it's a nightmare. A nightmare that doesn't look good across platforms. That's why Wikia went looking for an alternative, letting go of MediaWiki. It's got points to improve on, but it requires rethinking at every level. And that, in turn, requires wikis to rethink how they organize their community.

      It's got advantages, it's got drawbacks. But it's the future. That has been clear for as long as Discussions have been around, and the ship has sailed.

        Loading editor
    • Tupka217 wrote: Forums aren't as good as people think they are. Sure, they may fit your needs, but under the hood, it's a nightmare. A nightmare that doesn't look good across platforms. That's why Wikia went looking for an alternative, letting go of MediaWiki. It's got points to improve on, but it requires rethinking at every level. And that, in turn, requires wikis to rethink how they organize their community.

      It's got advantages, it's got drawbacks. But it's the future. That has been clear for as long as Discussions have been around, and the ship has sailed.

      People should still have a choice between them.

        Loading editor
    • Tabuu5 wrote:

      Tupka217 wrote: Forums aren't as good as people think they are. Sure, they may fit your needs, but under the hood, it's a nightmare. A nightmare that doesn't look good across platforms. That's why Wikia went looking for an alternative, letting go of MediaWiki. It's got points to improve on, but it requires rethinking at every level. And that, in turn, requires wikis to rethink how they organize their community.

      It's got advantages, it's got drawbacks. But it's the future. That has been clear for as long as Discussions have been around, and the ship has sailed.

      People should still have a choice between them.

      Maintaining two different systems means dedicating extra resources to maintenance and less uniformity across platforms, which limits the ad sales. "People" don't pay the bills.

        Loading editor
    • Tupka217 wrote:

      Tabuu5 wrote:

      Tupka217 wrote: Forums aren't as good as people think they are. Sure, they may fit your needs, but under the hood, it's a nightmare. A nightmare that doesn't look good across platforms. That's why Wikia went looking for an alternative, letting go of MediaWiki. It's got points to improve on, but it requires rethinking at every level. And that, in turn, requires wikis to rethink how they organize their community.

      It's got advantages, it's got drawbacks. But it's the future. That has been clear for as long as Discussions have been around, and the ship has sailed.

      People should still have a choice between them.

      Maintaining two different systems means dedicating extra resources to maintenance and less uniformity across platforms, which limits the ad sales. "People" don't pay the bills.

      There currently is two different systems.

        Loading editor
    • Tabuu5 wrote:

      Tupka217 wrote:

      Tabuu5 wrote:

      Tupka217 wrote: Forums aren't as good as people think they are. Sure, they may fit your needs, but under the hood, it's a nightmare. A nightmare that doesn't look good across platforms. That's why Wikia went looking for an alternative, letting go of MediaWiki. It's got points to improve on, but it requires rethinking at every level. And that, in turn, requires wikis to rethink how they organize their community.

      It's got advantages, it's got drawbacks. But it's the future. That has been clear for as long as Discussions have been around, and the ship has sailed.

      People should still have a choice between them.

      Maintaining two different systems means dedicating extra resources to maintenance and less uniformity across platforms, which limits the ad sales. "People" don't pay the bills.

      There currently is two different systems.

      Transition.

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    • Honestly, I disagree with discussions and announcements. But you know, that's just my opinions and they don't matter, even if most people out here agree with what I'm saying. But you know, maybe FANDOM will eventually change over time when they see the population of the website starts to go down. And there's no trying to justify discussions and announcements being all that great either. I don't like them, and my opinion will not change either. Anyways discussions on my wiki is really buggy because the notifications sometimes aren't clicking and I don't even do announcements anymore because nobody really checks them anymore. And my community is fairly large.

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    • Tabuu5 wrote: If discussions are so good, yet the majority of users don’t want them, why aren’t users able to choose between discussions and forums for their wikis? I have tried discussions, and the only advantage of it is that you can lock posts. In my opinion, users should be able to choose between forums and discussions. If the wiki does not enable forums, then it would disable highlights. So why can’t we choose?

      I really agree with you, this is what I really wanted to say. You know, forcing any new wiki to have an (from my point of view) unfinished feature and not let them choose to have it or not, is like forcing someone to move to a house that isn't yet finished building. Maybe my example is wrong, but I hope you get my point.

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    • Katachino
      Katachino removed this reply because:
      uuuuhhh
      09:30, December 17, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it a bad decision.

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    • Tupka217 wrote: Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it a bad decision.

      Just because you like it, doesn’t make it a good decision. xDDDD

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    • Gilben wrote:

      Tupka217 wrote: Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it a bad decision.

      Just because you like it, doesn’t make it a good decision. xDDDD

      Based on any user opinions doesn't make it a good or bad decision because it will happen anyway.

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    • But you can't deny that making such changes without even consulting communities and then making them leave are bad decisions. They're literally pushing their users away. Hopefully, I will stay here.

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    • Golfpecks256 wrote:

      Gilben wrote:

      Tupka217 wrote: Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it a bad decision.

      Just because you like it, doesn’t make it a good decision. xDDDD

      Based on any user opinions doesn't make it a good or bad decision because it will happen anyway.

      I never said I liked it. I like Discussions for the extra user interaction we're getting by opening mobile, but I don't like the lack of wikitext. We rarely highlighted, so Announcements suffice. The Fandom thing I don't like, but it's been explained and well, bills need to be paid.

      For interaction and consultation with users, there's the Community Council.

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    • Tupka217 wrote:

      For interaction and consultation with users, there's the Community Council.

      The Community Council would be better if users could vote someone in... right now it has the danger of being a yes-man group, since FANDOM staff appoints them.

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    • Andrewds1021 wrote:
      My wiki won't get much use out of it since I am about the only one still active. Nonetheless, I finally decided to test it out. In addition to the other suggestions already mentioned in this thread, here are some more.
      1. Fix for IE11. The page will display but nothing works.
      2. Fix for message systems. Neither the new notification system, the message wall/forum notification system, nor the message bubbles (not sure what these are actually called) work while on the announcements page. The new notification system dropdown shows but is non-functional. The other two systems don't even display.
      3. [...]

      That sounds like a bug - IE 11 is a browser that we support. Could you send a bug report via Special:Contact?

      The old notification system isn't present on the Announcements management page on purpose, though. The old (forum and message wall) notifications are something that we eventually hope to integrate into the new system, so it didnt' seem worth the extra effort to build the old system into this page. Once we can add message wall notifications to the new (bell) notification dropdown, it will be the only one needed. If the new notifications show but don't work, that is likely part of the bug. 

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    • Can I find out where they decided why they want to make such a big, random change? I am curious to hear their reasoning. And why not just keep both of them?

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    • Noreplyz
      Noreplyz removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      21:40, December 17, 2018
      This reply has been removed
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    • Noreplyz
      Noreplyz removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      21:41, December 17, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Noreplyz
      Noreplyz removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      21:41, December 17, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Fandyllic wrote:

      Tupka217 wrote:

      For interaction and consultation with users, there's the Community Council.

      The Community Council would be better if users could vote someone in... right now it has the danger of being a yes-man group, since FANDOM staff appoints them.

      The same could also be said about the moderators chosen here on Community Central. But as someone who is a part of Council, I can tell you, that is often not the case. But at least, most of the time, we can have civil discussions.

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    • FANDOM, just stop already. Nobody likes the whole discussions feature to begin with. You're making the website worse, not better. Nobody likes discussions. Forums are easier and we're all used to them. A lot of people will quit FANDOM because of this.

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    • Cheetos8089 wrote: FANDOM, just stop already. Nobody likes the whole discussions feature to begin with. You're making the website worse, not better. Nobody likes discussions. Forums are easier and we're all used to them. A lot of people will quit FANDOM because of this.

      That's how you experience it. But it's not true. Forums are a mess behind the curtain.

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    • Cheetos8089 wrote: FANDOM, just stop already. Nobody likes the whole discussions feature to begin with. You're making the website worse, not better. Nobody likes discussions. Forums are easier and we're all used to them. A lot of people will quit FANDOM because of this.

      The technical side of this takes a major role in changes like this. Discussions aren't even fully developed yet you're drawing a conclusion so quickly.

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    • I know plenty of people that like Discussions over Forums, because they work better on mobile. It's brought in a lot of good new users for us. Discussions and forums are just as easy; in many ways easier because new users don't have to understand wikitext to participate, and the wiki doesn't have to delete the images people add.

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    • Fandom is obviously taking the same bet as tumblr.

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    • Tupka217 wrote:

      I know plenty of people that like Discussions over Forums, because they work better on mobile. It's brought in a lot of good new users for us. Discussions and forums are just as easy; in many ways easier because new users don't have to understand wikitext to participate, and the wiki doesn't have to delete the images people add.

      While most of this is true for the wikis I work on, you don't need to know wikitext to use the thread-based Forum. Having images not show up in the wiki store is also a drawback because you can't look for bad images in a central place.

      I don't think Discussions will ever support wikitext and any hints by FANDOM that this will happen are probably just PR. So, I'll probably reduce the amount of help I give when Forum goes away as I also think there won't be a suitable replacement for Forum maybe ever.

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    • Closing this thread once more since it has veered off-topic. The constructive feedback users have posted here has been noted and the common points identified. 

      Thanks to everyone who made suggestions or shared their own experience with Highlights or Announcements!

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