Thank you, KockaAdmiralac.
It's nice that someone is FINALLY backing up my statement that the servers are serving WEBPs
Andrewds1021 wrote:How many times does this need to be repeated? The WEBP issue is only for certain browsers.
Please stop repeating it, because it is incorrect: the problem is thatthe SERVER is SERVING WEBP FILES.
Andrewds1021 wrote:If you want to discuss how difficult it is for anons to get the full image, fine.
Andrewds1021 wrote:It works perfectly fine on Internet Explorer 11 even as an anon.
I have confirmed that Internet Explorer 11 indeed does not download the image served, and instead converts the image. (However, the underlying problem of the server serving a webp remains, as demonstrated in Internet Explorer 11 by pasting the "See full size image" url to imgur and getting an error.)
Fun fact: Internet Explorer 11 isn't a supported browser: Help:Supported_browsers.
So yes, anons using Internet Explorer 11 can easily download a full-resolution version of an image. This gives you the justification to continue saying "only occurs for certain browsers", despite the fact it is an unsupported browser. According to the top google result for browser market share it accounts for only 3.7% of desktop users, so the experience of using Internet Explorer 11 is not the representative experience of the majority of anons.
However, it is disingenuous to say "only occurs for certain browsers" as that wording implies that it effects a minority of users, when the greater truth is that it "only occurs for certain browsers used by the majority of users".
Anons using Wikia's most popular supported browser have no convenient way to download a usable full-resolution version of many images, because the link provided by Wikia is to a URL that says jpg/png but often serves a WEBP image to *all* browsers, and any browser that trusts the web server to be honest about the filetype will save the WEBP verbatim with a jpg/png filename.
Anons using any browser no longer have any convenient way to download the original unconverted and uncompressed image.
They can modify the URL in order to obtain the original image, or to just obtain a usable image, but is it not something a typical anon should be required to know how to do. They can also take a screenshot of their screen and paste it into an image editor - but the fact that there are workarounds does not absolve Wikia, and constantly mentioning said workarounds when we're discussing what Wikia DID, and what they should DO is nothing but a distraction tactic.
Andrewds1021 wrote:Having some wikis where anons download images is not the same as having most wikis with anons downloading images.
It is disingenuous to dismiss Video Game wikis as "some wikis". Video Game wikis are, at the very least, "many wikis".
Your attempt at manipulating phrasing to minimise the issue aside, you are fairly successfully using the troll tactic of distracting from the larger issue by focusing on a single point.
It doesn't matter how many anons want to download images.
A non-zero quantity of anons want to download images, and, statistically, more than half of them are using Chrome.
You trying to argue about how many anons want to download images is irrelevant, as I have already acknowledged that Wikia Staff simply do not care about anons who want to download images.
I welcome anyone to search for the word "accessible" - I have never said "accessible" or "inaccessible", nor have I made any such claim using different wording. From the very first revision of my first comment in this thread, I have always said "no convenient way", as a tacit acknowledgement that there IS a way, just that it is not convenient.
Your failed attempts to reframe the discussion to suit yourself is one thing. But lying about what other people have said should get you blocked.
KockaAdmiralac, as a Volunteer Developer, I hope that you will be able to get this issue addressed and resolved.
Now that someone competent has acknowledged this issue, I am unfollowing this thread.
Let's be clear about one thing: Your comment has not added anything to the conversation, and you yet again just appear to be commenting for the sake of commenting.
Stop trying to move the goalposts.
The inability for anons to access the original file was the very first in a long list of issues I mentioned in my first post in this thread: Thread:1774401
Claiming it is a separate topic is disingenuous.
The change that is the topic of this thread causes anons to not be able to access to the "(original file)" link on the file page. Instead, anons are only presented with a "See full size image" link, which in many cases serves an WEBP image instead of the original filetype.
As demonstrated here by the most recent image uploaded to Community Central, which serves a webp instead of jpg for Chrome, Firefox, Opera - and Chrome on Android. Please name a browser it doesn't serve a webp for, or stop claiming it only effects "specific browser versions" without evidence.
What you expect is irrelevant, in practice I first became aware of this change - within 4 days - because of a regular wiki-reading-only non-editing anon complaining about a downloaded image being "corrupt".
People from a variety of "fandoms" like to download images, for the purpose of making memes, for example. People who specifically read video game wikis are highly likely to download maps or other instructional images. They don't have to be Wikia editors to want to do that.
However, I do not expect that the typical anon will bother to contact the wiki to let them know the image they tried to download is corrupt - the only reason I learned about it was that they complained off-wiki and someone else reported it to me.
But all of this is irrelevant, because Wikia Staff have already made it very clear that they simply do not care about anons who want to download images:
Mira Laime wrote:There is still going to be the odd user who is negatively impacted, by this, yes.
Serving webp files when the url says .jpg and .png is by design. AND IS THE PROBLEM.
It's not a "bug", it was a design decision to intentionally allow the image server to be able to serve an image with a mime type which does not match the file extension.
Edit: Well I just wasted 30 minutes of my life wading through Wikia's spaghetti code on github to try to locate exactly where the thumbnails are generated. I suspect - but am happy to be disproven - that the source for Vignette (and "Thumblr", the thumbnail generator) is not public.
The thumbnailer is https://github.com/Wikia/vignette/blob/master/src/vignette/util/thumbnail.clj and while there are clearly parts mentioning webp, I still can't tell how it decides whether to use a webp thumnail. Obviously "photos" are more commonly being served as webp than "graphics", so it probably has something to do with comprehensibility, but I can't see where the choice is made.
Why are you both trying to frame the image server serving webp files as a bug?
...do you think the software is just accidentally converting some images to webp?
That is what it is designed to do.
Browser specific my ear. As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Vengir wrote:Absolutely no issues.
Well that settles it. One person downloaded a few files and couldn't replicate it, therefore there is no problem and anyone who does see the problem is wrong.
Edit: I just downloaded the last 10 images uploaded to Community Central AND FIVE OF THEM ARE EXPLETIVE WEBP EXPLETIVE FILES WITH EXPLETIVE JPG AND PNG EXPLETIVE EXTENSIONS. (Which means Window doesn't display a thumbnail, you can't open them in Windows Photo Viewer or mspaint, and you can't upload them to Wikia because the "File extension ".jpg" does not match the detected MIME type of the file (image/webp).")
So EXPLETIVE me (and my ability to assume the person reporting the bug is telling the truth and my ability to conduct a random sampling, and to test a large enough sample in order to replicate the bug instead of just giving up after "a couple") I guess.
edit: Since I primarily use Chrome, I just checked what happens in Firefox: If you right click on "see full size image" and "save link as", then the Save As prompt says jpg or png, but if you click through to the "full size image" first, then the Save As prompt says WEBP - and even the page title says .webp - because Firefox is actually looking at the mime type of the image it is displaying and not trusting the web server to be honest.
For the record, I was expecting 1 in 4, so it's just hilarious that literally half of the last 10 files uploaded here demonstrated it.
You further agree:Not to intentionally block, remove, or otherwise obstruct the proper functioning and view of [...] user interface and functionality;
Specifically, the default functionality has an icon which links directly to the file page. The removal of this icon removes any way to access the file page, which is against the spirit of a wiki.
Yes, check out Thread:707587.
I did not do that by mistake.
The purpose of quoting is to specify the context of the reply.
The quote in my comment clearly specifies that the context of my reply is your statement about used images being redirected and displaying the lightbox.
Quoting the entirety of the comment immediately preceding yours is pointless, and is a common mistake amongst new users. From your entire-quoting and failure to recognise context from my clipped quote, I can only assume that you are a new user, so welcome to the wiki!
There is no reason for me to try pointless troubleshooting steps, because I am not the one having trouble.
Again: the context of my reply was your statement about used images being redirected and displaying the lightbox.
So linking to an unused image is irrelevant and pointless.
I already mentioned my first comment in this thread, but you clearly did not scroll up and read it. If you had bothered to read what I said about used images and lightboxes, as well as the reply from Snapper2, then perhaps you wouldn't be confused about when the lightbox is and isn't shown.
My point stands:
No-one has ever claimed that used images are "supposed" to show a lightbox when being redirected to the article they are used in.
That says absolutely nothing about opening the lightbox.
My comment enumerating the issues explicitly mentions the fact that the lightbox is NOT opened, and explicitly lists "always opening the lightbox when redirected" as a remedy.
So it if was "supposed to" "open the image in a lightbox" after redirecting, why didn't anyone mention that after my comment?
On the contrary, Snapper2 responded to what I said, confirming and agreeing.
Sophiedp wrote:If you go to a file page, like File:Example.jpg, its supposed to take you to the first page where the file is used, and open the image in a lightbox
This statement is false, and has never been claimed in this thread.
You do NOT have to register to view the licensing information:
I do not understand why everyone is acting as if the image license is unavailable for anons.
It's right there.
There are many other valid problems, but everyone seems hung up on this one thing which is a non-issue.
Mira Laime wrote:[...]we found no negative consequences[...]
Mira Laime wrote:There is still going to be the odd user who is negatively impacted, by this, yes.
Ah, I had been wondering why people were complaining of downloaded images being broken.
Exactly how are anon users supposed to be able to download the original version of the file?
If they click "See full size image", they aren't taken to "&format=original", they are taken to your shitty webp version, which saves as a .jpg or .png, and they are told it is corrupt if they try to open it on their computer.
Here's an idea: when you display an image recompressed as a webp, simply don't LIE about what type of file it is. It you're going to convert it to webp, then show .webp instead of .jpg!
Mira Laime wrote:
[...]we tested file page redirects for several weeks[...][...]we found no negative consequences[...]
Several weeks? In less than 1 week, someone told me an image they downloaded was corrupted.
Now that I know what is going on, I've thought about this for several minutes, and come up with a list of negative consequences.
This may be the first time I've agreed with something Andrewds1021 has said, but simply allowing "?redirect=no", and using it in a "see file page" link in the lightbox, would fix the majority of these. (And if you don't want Google to index the "?redirect=no" File page, there's "noindex, nofollow" to do that.)
The other 2 can be fixed by ALWAYS showing the lightbox popup when redirected, and not only for unused images.
edit: And exactly how the FLYING EXPLETIVE are anon users supposed to view/download PDFs now?
Or did you forget AGAIN that other files exist which are not images?
Edit: Also: File:Anon_users_CAN_see_the_image_licence.png
I think I've figured out what is going on, and why Wikia Staff are making this change, which is fundamentally against the principles of wikis.
This is step 1 in their "path to Lucy".
First, they are going to desensitise anons - the silent majority - into the concept that they do not have access to page history and large images.
A later step will probably involve a complete shift to the kind of images used in Discussions: No file pages, no history, nothing.
Experiments like Venus and Lucy show us exactly what Wikia WANT.
Everyone was vocally against Venus, and they scrapped it, but then slowly added in multiple elements over time. They were less public with Lucy, but people were still vocally against it. But why wouldn't they follow the same pattern with Lucy and implement it piece by piece?
Since there doesn't appear to be a preference to opt-out of this:
This can be disabled by adding *ext.wikia.EditDraftSaving* to your ad blocking extension.
You should definitely only copy templates in the source editor, not visual editor. There is an option on Special:Preferences to always use the source editor.
Once you find a template you like, you should be able to view the template source and copy it to your website.
But always remember to attribute the copied template - they are licensed under cc-by-sa, and copying without attribution is a licensing violation.
If you link to a template you like, and the wiki you want it on, I can help you.
You have certainly found the right thread related to that question.
However, I'm not sure why you're posting the question at the end of the thread which already answers that question.
Please read the thread, and if you have any questions after that, let me know.
There is no rule against it, nor should there be. There should be a rule against off-topic comments - which includes yours. There should be a rule against ordering people around, as you have just done. There should be a rule that if you don't have anything positive to add to a conversation, you should not post in it.
If you don't want to be notified about old posts, you should simply stop following the thread. Take personal responsibility, instead of trying to modify other people's behaviour to suit yourself.
I am still subscribed to this thread because I want notifications about people discussing an editor being stuck loading. People who don't care about a thread anymore should take personal responsibility and unsubscribe instead of spamming notifications with off-topic comments not discussing an editor being stuck loading.
I welcome on-topic replies to anything I've ever posted, so here's my on-topic response:
Detective LcLeviYT, open your browser inspector (ctrl-shift-i maybe), click the "console" tab, and copy/paste any errors here, and I'll see if I can get to the bottom of this for you.
452 wrote:In case anyone in unaware: In Aug 2016, Wikia decided that when you press the submit button, before it would actually save the page, it would first contact their tracking server and log the fact that you're pressing the submit button
Curiously, they've now reverted the very change I linked: https://github.com/Wikia/app/commit/57d2dac16aef7df9eca4977d1b82a9f9e7b6fd13
edit: Oh nevermind, they've added tracking back in again: https://github.com/Wikia/app/commit/8e0f367ac17ee1bdf455ca21ed0e27e9474b5680
I just found something interesting.
I reported the timeout delay to Wikia Staff in 2016, and they said:
|“||I've talked to our Platform team to understand more of the solution today and we will look at an alternate solution a colleague of mine pitched that won't require a timeout.||„|
|~ Wikia Staff, September 09, 2016 13:20|
So much for that.