Forum:When was the rule not allowing people under 13 added to the Terms of Use?

The Terms of Use used to have restrictions for users under 13 years old in order to comply with COPPA. But those users were allowed (and could register). Now it says,
 * Any registration by anyone under 13 is unauthorized, unlicensed and in violation of these Terms of Use. By registering the Service or the Site, you represent and warrant that you are 13 or older and that you agree to and to abide by all of the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

Yet, there are wikia aimed at audiences primary under that age. And many users have self-declared that they are younger than 13. (And that is a violation, users under 18 should not be asked for or supply personally identifying information like age.)

Anyone have more information about this? -- CocoaZen 03:31, January 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * The change was evidently made on December 10, 2007. --

Yep, that looks like about the right timeframe. By the way, the reason my concern about young users came up is that a teacher is interested in having her class participate and contribute to the Judaism wiki. We've had similar class efforts on the Literature wiki. Some of them don't produce much content, but some have been a good way to improve a part of the wiki.

But this is a 5th grade class, usually that's about 10 year olds. So, given the current Terms of Use, they shouldn't create IDs, and we'd be getting a bunch of IP edits -- probably similar and overlapping ones from the same range (the school's). And anyone who claims that someone else must have used the same IP for a bad edit, so it shouldn't have been blocked, will likely be telling the truth.

I'd really like the kids to be able to edit with IDs -- especially under the guidance of their technology teacher -- but given the current Terms of Use, they shouldn't be creating IDs.

See for the teacher's note. -- CocoaZen 06:39, January 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, and the change was made, as Dser says, December 19, 2007, by DNL, who only made 12 edits and doesn't appear to have been staff? But the change was kept. Oh, well... (To see the change, ) -- CocoaZen 07:08, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think Wikia wanted to ban children under the age of 13 editing, but the law was that :( &mdash; [/wiki/User:Sam_Wang S a m ] [/wiki/User_talk:Sam_Wang W a n g ] 07:13, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * DNL may have been staff member, but may have resigned from Wikia. (Many staff members have resigned and have little or no edits on CC). Adding Staff Needed since they need to look at this and make up their mind about it.


 * According to Special:Log/rights, DNL was a staff member, but was, at some point, relieved of his position. --


 * This restriction was almost certainly added to comply with Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998 (aka COPPA). This has actually been law long before Wikia added the restriction, since it took effect in 2000. -- Fandyllic (talk &middot; contr) 27 Jan 2012 9:40 AM Pacific

(Resetting indent) - Fandyllic is correct - the restriction we place on users under 13 registering is to ensure we're in compliance with COPPA. We have no control if someone registers on Wikia with false information to bypass this restriction, but do close accounts if we have verifiable evidence that the account holder has lied about their age to bypass this restriction. Jen Burton (help forum | blog) 17:16, January 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, COPPA was in effect before this. And the previous rules were believed to comply with COPPA, but still allowed users under 13 to register. But new legal staff might have re-interpreted the law, I guess. ?? There are other ways to comply with COPPA other than officially banning younger people from having IDs. Too bad we can't support this class project. -- CocoaZen 03:33, January 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * The school could consider setting up their own MediaWiki wiki internally based on an export of Judaism wiki and then have someone review the changes and either import them back or manually put them in. -- Fandyllic (talk &middot; contr) 27 Jan 2012 9:06 PM Pacific


 * Luckily the teacher figured out a good way to handle it for this case. The students will do the research. The teacher will log in and help them enter the content -- editing it for spelling and correcting any mistakes as it's entered.
 * Thanks for the suggestion, Fandyllic! -- CocoaZen 18:19, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Off topic stuff

 * Besides what Dser posted, this log shows him promoting Jeffrey Tierney to staff. Any idea why DNL was relieved? Also if perhaps there are records of a conversation amongst staff (like on talk pages) to make the change? I guess if someone disagreed with it they could be bold, change it (and convey the argument of why you want to, or why you are reverting the 2007 edit) and see what happens. It's probably a good idea to keep the restriction mostly for protecting Wikia from liability concerns though. +y@talk 16:09, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * First off: most conversations staff have amongst eachother are done at their office in either San Francisco or in Poland (among other places). Secondly, they have a staff only wiki which is solely accessible to staff members and voluntary admins on the CC wiki. But there is a strict rule for that no conversation are even referenced outside of it (one admin has been demoted partly due to fairly cryptically referencing about it from all his tasks).
 * Staff is far from eager to discuss personell matters on CC. They even had big issues with a well known volunteer being demoted and a crowd of wikians requesting an explenation. It took them more then a week of continues bashing into the subject to finally come forward and be very very cryptic about the reasons. So don't expect them to make any comments regarding their personell publicly. Especially if said person isn't well known on CC.
 * Wikipim, Community Central admins do not have access to the internal wiki. It is staff only. Regarding why DNL is no longer staff, remember that working for Wikia is a real job. New people are hired all the time, other people leave. Staff members quit or are fired just like any other job. I doubt staff are willing to talk about one specific staff member and why they are no longer staff. That is company information and does not need to be public.--
 * I have never had access to any internal wikis, ever. My demotion came about due to casually discussed gossip by wikia staff who DO have access. At the time, I was unaware it came from internal. The reason I posted it was to prove that there are people on the inside who talked openly about others behind their back.
 * And as far as I know, DNL was let go (along with other New York staff members) because at that time Wikia decided to scrap their projects/development (search, social profile, etc). -- 20:25, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sigh. -- Fandyllic (talk &middot; contr) 2 Feb 2012 1:28 PM Pacific
 * I'm gonna say sigh too just for the sake of making a useless comment. 1358  (Talk)  20:42, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

COPPA and under 13 users
There are ways to allow for users under 13 years old and still comply with COPPA (Children's Online Privacy Protection Act). Wikia has chosen to ban such users instead of using one of those methods. As the party that would have to do the extra work, and which would be held legally responsible if they didn't, and who provide the wikia resources, this is their choice to make. However, I'm still sorry to see that they made this choice. -- CocoaZen 03:00, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * "obtaining a signed form from the parent via postal mail or facsimile"
 * "accepting and verifying a credit card number"
 * "taking calls from parents on a toll-free telephone number staffed by trained personnel"
 * "email accompanied by digital signature"
 * "email accompanied by a PIN or password obtained through one of the verification methods above."
 * -- From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. -- 14:54, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Seeing that list, I'm not surprised Wikia opted for just not allowing honest users under 13 from registering. Supporting the exceptions does not make business sense, but I suppose they could add an exemption for determined users who are willing to prove they have their parents' permission at their own expense. I'm betting they chose not to because they would still have to record and store any info about permissions and most likely expensive physical storage and not electronic. -- Fandyllic (talk &middot; contr) 8 Mar 2012 3:24 PM Pacific

...and for the Judaism Wiki
Try MyWikis, their ToU is a little different. -- 14:58, March 4, 2012 (UTC)