User:M.mendel/Talk:Important Updates on Wikia’s New Look

''This page was made from the first 1008 comments made in the first 25 hours after the posting of User blog:Sannse/Important Updates on Wikia’s New Look. -- ◄mendel► 20:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)''

This will suck. --24.178.137.65 19:47, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well aren't you quite the optimistic fellow. --Armageddon11 20:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

It's good that we have a timetable. We shall see how this develops. --Cferra 19:54, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Monaco has just been pwnt. --Bluesonic43 19:55, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, what's the point in image-attribution? I know we get the "[Avatar] Added by Example " but on some Wikia wiki's like the RuneScape wiki had already hid it due to vanity edits and to remain neutral. It's not needed to know who uploaded as long as it's known it's a collaborative effort. --Bluesonic43 20:01, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Doesn't matter if you need to know it or not, you can't remove it now due to the new Terms of Use. It feels like my credit card just jumped the rates 50% and sent me a friendly note to tell me after the fact. --Peteparker 20:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Please say that you won't remove Monobook. --Xd1358 19:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Monobook will still be available as a personal option --Sannse 17:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

what about using personal css pages? will those not be allowed any more? --Callofduty4 19:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Remember, these new terms only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages." - You keep your own pages. --Bluesonic43 20:02, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I see, thanks. That's not that much of a problem then. --Callofduty4 20:14, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's only a problem if you care what your wiki looks like to everyone else but you. --Peteparker 20:27, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Monobook is the only good skin around here. And works the best, of course. --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 19:59, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

excellent! --KazMx 20:02, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I have monobook in my global css. So hopefully yes, why wouldn't they be allowed anymore? --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 20:03, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Anything in your personal CSS and JS pages is OK -- which includes your global CSS --Sannse 17:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Core features? Blogs, achievements, article comments? :| --Xd1358 20:03, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I always thought core features were articles, but for some reason they have been degraded :S --Callofduty4 20:14, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Articles are key of course, but other features can definitely enhance a wiki

The three you mention here will all continue to be optional as we move to the new look. You can ask for them to be turned on or off via Special:Contact --Sannse 17:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Articles are key of course"
 * Is that why you are making every article with an infobox look ugly and horrible? --Solar Dragon 17:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is that why you are making every article with an infobox look ugly and horrible? --Solar Dragon 17:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the dates :). A timeline...it's just like a show. hahaha. --Station7 20:05, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's a death clock for Monaco. ;) --Bluesonic43 20:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * No to be sarcastic, but what you just write could also mean something different. I don't want to sound mean or anything, but it's sound weird what you did write there BlueSonic43. --Station7 20:13, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * "The option to use Monaco will be removed." Fine, it's the finale. =P
 * Fin. --Bluesonic43 20:15, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fin. --Bluesonic43 20:15, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

They all suck. :P IRC is for general discussing and the rest can be done on the talk pages. --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 20:05, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

So there's NO choice in what a wiki can use at all? --Smuff 20:12, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know. IMO, I would like to stick with what we have now, because I know the format. --Dakotacoons 20:18, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Some features are optional, but should be turned off via the wiki controls rather than with CSS or JS. You can use Special:Contact to make requests. --Sannse 17:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

its not ready... --Pcj 20:13, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * *Waits for next release* It might be tomorrow. *Crosses fingers that everything is fixed* --Bluesonic43 20:16, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Some changes and fixes have been released today, more are due in the next few weeks. We plan to post a blog as the beta comes to an end, to update on the results of that process --Sannse 17:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

A one week beta followed by a 5 week implementation schedule?! That isn't much time to collect comments and act on them. I guess the countdown begins to Monaco’s death, and a lot of unanswered questions go unanswered. --Lancer1289 20:14, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

The private beta phase, to which all were invited, has now been running for 6 weeks. :) During this time we've collected hundreds of comments and and have made many changes and will continue to make more based off the store of feedback we have along with new feedback and insights we receive going forward.  We'll be posting a summary of the beta and examples of some of the changes we have made soon. --Susan Taylor 17:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you give us an idea of what you mean by soon please? Tomorrow? Next week? --Yyp 17:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Since this is early commenting u cant avoid this queestion by saying "We didn't see it"

Wat are u gonna fo about the CONTENT SPACE. U must have gotten tons of complaints, hell, u'r last blog alone was covered with questions like this, which, god knows how, u seemed to have missed --AlienGamer 20:17, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They're ignoring the complaints and moving forward anyway. Likely waiting to see what the fallout of implementing it as-is will be. --Peteparker 20:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

New updates and look for 2011? I get it! --Giggett 20:18, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Will there be widgets? --Sprinklemist 20:18, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

No, the current widgets were only used by a very small number of people and they will go away. But similar to widgets we will create several modules for the right hand sidebar. We do have a lot of interesting ideas and suggestions from users we’re evaluating right now. --Avatar 17:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, and these should be tested out in the beta, not after it. --Yyp 17:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Meh --Gamemasta424 20:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Amazing, pushing forward through the barrage of complaints.

It feels just like Quartz all over again. Maybe it won't take Wikia two months to figure out that this skin doesn't work this time. --Peteparker 20:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Hey --Lssj4 20:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * yo --TheDarkPrinceReturns! 20:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good --Lssj4 20:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Kind of a duh. N.O lol --Secretam 20:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

And WOW, i mean seriouly, Sarah u wrote this blog like its something to look forward to, and which the community loves, way to ignore all negativity, gotta hand it to the staff, turn a blind eye to u'r own blogs. --AlienGamer 20:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I thought it said Sannse? --Bluesonic43 20:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Opps, *Sannse, well, they both ignore the complaints and write similar blogs anyway :P --AlienGamer 20:23, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Sarah and I write a lot of the blogs together :) We don't ignore complaints, but there's not always anything we can say in reply --Sannse 17:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

 Its more like this beta was to help them fix their bugs, than get actual feedback. :\ --Gourra 20:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * EXACTLY --Peteparker 20:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * lol --Secretam 20:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Considering they didn't even respond to anything that was posted on their blogs, then maybe they will respond here. But you appear to be correct, let's fix the bugs and ignore any feedback. --Lancer1289 20:28, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

We've had some really great feedback during the beta and while many bugs were fixed (thank you!) we've also made many tweaks and outright changes to features as well. This is a work in progress and we're not yet done making changes based on feedback. More are in the pipeline with design, product and engineering. We'll be gathering a summary of the changes that have been made and posting it on the blog soon. --Susan Taylor 17:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Great feedback? Did you have some sort of bot that instantly took the feedback with the angry face and instantly delete it or something? Are you guys really that ignorant? Most people HATE the skin. I was a beta tester and I hate it. After the 20th October, I will be gone from Wikia. For good. --Solar Dragon 17:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Cool! I'm an admin of the LEGO Games wiki and I can't wait for the new look. --Secretam 20:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * So, you like having cramped article space and for the wiki to be dominated by links to other wikis? --Solar Dragon 20:38, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * No secretam, no.
 * Dont turn to the dark side. --Kingcjc 20:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I'd rather to be able to keep the switching off action, while people adjust. --JennyVincent 20:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

There's about 4 weeks from when we make the new look available in which you will be able to switch between the two -- that's some time to adjust  --Sannse 17:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Just want you guys to know, I will be leaving Wikia once this change happens. Whether it is with the wikis I work on or not, I will be gone from Wikia. I hate the skin, it is hard to use and just doesn't seem right. --Solar Dragon 20:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They're just trying to make it better. Don't leave beause of it. --Secretam 20:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Same here. I even found a good alternative in ShoutWiki, which someone in some blog pointed out. --AlienGamer 20:24, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Better? It is horrible! I like all my buttons in a row. They ruin that on the new skin. I have to go to three different places now to use the basic tools of a page.
 * I am an admin on 13 different wikis. Some communities will feel it badly when I leave, some won;t notice, some will end up a playground for vandals with no one to clear it up. That is the way it will be all because of the Wikia Nazis who think that change is better, even though 99/100 people like it the way it is!!! --Solar Dragon 20:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am an admin on 13 different wikis. Some communities will feel it badly when I leave, some won;t notice, some will end up a playground for vandals with no one to clear it up. That is the way it will be all because of the Wikia Nazis who think that change is better, even though 99/100 people like it the way it is!!! --Solar Dragon 20:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They are not trying to make it better, or they would have listened to any of the critiques they've gotten since they first started infringing on content-space last year, or adding all of the facebook-type features. Instead, they ignored anyone who had complaints. --KrytenKoro 20:26, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like ShoutWiki. I plan to move there if I can get the community to agree. --Solar Dragon 20:26, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ya, even if its Monobook, its still better than this --AlienGamer 20:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * ShoutWiki is much better. Also, no ads! No ads people! --Solar Dragon 20:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're leaving Solar Dragon. That's worse. I don't want you to leave... --Station7 15:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Why fix a problem if it isn't broken? Wikia isn't broken, don't try and bend it. It's fine as it it. --Oliverandtoad13 20:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

So can someone exactly sum up what is really happening? --Lssj4 20:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They're updating the look of all wikis. I hope it'll look good. --Secretam 20:23, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They're switching to a new skin. You won't be able to use Monaco anymore.  Start getting ready as soon as they give you the ability to switch, so you'll be prepared when they shut down Monaco for good. --Peteparker 20:24, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Peteparker is correct. :) We're updating the look of Wikia, which means Monaco will no longer be available after November 3rd.  If you're looking for more information about the change we've created a reference page at http://www.wikia.com/go which also includes a transition guide that will continue be filled out as we draw nearer to October 6th. --Susan Taylor 17:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

can't say it's not cool. It will look like a blogsite, but at least it looks much better than the previous. I got a gilmpse of it. --Divinecross 20:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not cool.
 * There. Quite easy to say, honestly. All of the example pages I've seen with it look like the first web-page made in an html class, not the output of an experienced web company. Whoever was in charge of this should be disciplined for general incompetence. --KrytenKoro 20:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * There. Quite easy to say, honestly. All of the example pages I've seen with it look like the first web-page made in an html class, not the output of an experienced web company. Whoever was in charge of this should be disciplined for general incompetence. --KrytenKoro 20:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

We can't fix the width?! That's unfair! Many users don't like the fixed width. --TheHomer 20:27, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, I love fixed width. I love having my infobox in the centre of the page! I love having info cramped into a small confined space. I love having all navboxes messed up. I love Wikia messing up the entire skin. --Solar Dragon 20:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They have been asked about it many times, and anyone on the staff has yet to repond to any requests as to why. --Lancer1289 20:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They won't respond to it. They've said their user testing shows that people's eyes get tired reading long strings of text, so they're using the small content area to address that. It won't be changed, (until the new skin proves to be a failure and they lose serious money two months after implementation, like Quartz). --Peteparker 20:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * What? Oh, sarcasm. I thought you liked all those things (I have to remember to read it all before believing things). :) --TheHomer 20:31, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry but when I am angry, I use sarcasm a lot. --Solar Dragon 20:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

One of the main benefits of fixed width is that it allows improved compatibility with many screen sizes and resolutions and it also means that everyone is designing all aspects of content for the same number of pixels. Designing for fixed width allows everyone to see all the elements of a wiki including customized design and customized content accurately. In Monaco the way these elements are viewed can vary widely from monitor to monitor and fixed width helps resolve that issue. --Susan Taylor 19:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Classical monobook is the best anyway... --Vygoš 20:28, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

We had blogs disabled through a COMMUNITY VOTE, and if Wikia decides to forcibly turn the feature on I will personally delete any blog page that gets created on Wookieepedia and ban any user that insists on using a feature that should rightfully be disabled. Further, if anyone uses an upload form that bypasses the file description requirements that were also decided on BY THE COMMUNITY then I will delete any improperly described file and ban anyone who continues to use an unapproved uploading tool. --Darth Culator 20:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're in for a lot of work, I'm sure. I feel for you guys. --Peteparker 20:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Memory Alpha has done the same. We also decided against "Badges" and "Achievements" since they work counter to the community that we have fostered over the years since MA was created (pre-dating Wikia no less).
 * I too will be taking this approach if these things are forcibly implemented on Memory Alpha, and encouraging the same of all of our administrators. --Sulfur 21:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I too will be taking this approach if these things are forcibly implemented on Memory Alpha, and encouraging the same of all of our administrators. --Sulfur 21:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Achievements and blogs will still be optional when we switch to the new look. But they should be turned on and off via the wiki controls, and not via the site CSS and JS --Sannse 17:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting... --Boredgunner 20:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Can I ask what advice has been taken from the comments people have posted on the staff blogs? To my knowledge, none of the features users have disagreed with have been removed or altered. I respect that you are getting feedback from other sources, but surely these can't outweigh every bit of negative feedback people have posted here.

Readers and professional web designers may know more about what visitors themselves want, but the people providing the content that attracts the visitors surely deserve some say in how their work is presented.

I haven't seen anyone in favour of the image attribution. People have given reasons against it; it encourages vanity edits and disregards the actual copyright holders and licensing. That feature only exits to alert people that the site is openly editable, right? I'm sure there are better ways of doing that. Plus the image Lightbox popup actually distracts people from seeing a list of editors. --Deltaneos 20:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would like to see a staff member respond seriously to this question and actually tell us, or post somewhere where they took all the suggestions we made in the last week. I don't that is enough time to test something on this scale with the public. --Lancer1289 20:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

We hope to post a new blog post next week that will talk about the feedback from beta testing and elsewhere, and what we have been doing with it --Sannse 18:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Might wanna fix the link to your ToU there - you screwed up the capitalization.

http://www.wikia.com/Terms_of_Use --Dr ishmael 20:31, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks :) Uberfuzzy put in a redirect to fix that --Sannse 18:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

in truth,i could care less about this but whatever floats wikia's boat i guess

http://www.zoids.wikia.com --Leon35 20:31, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Great! Despite all the negative feedback, you ram the new look through anyway. Just great! Thanks heaps Wikia! --Tinni 20:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but this just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Would the Wikia staff address the concerns raised by the community at least ONCE? If you think you know better, fine, but at least explain why you make these changes without any kind of compromise whatsoever. The previous "explanations" I saw in these blog posts felt more like a PR statement than anything else. You are sending notifications to wiki admins to follow your posts - try to act like we're not complete newbies then who don't know squat. --Pip25 20:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oooh yay! We finally have a timeline to the end of all that is great on wikia! Hooray!!! --Mackmoron11 20:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I still say that monobook rocks. But, as far as I know, there is no worry for uncyclopedia-like wikis (like this one i'm participating with), because we will still have monobook as deafault. Yeah. --Wasilij Hrabia Żygutek 20:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

660px wide? Ouch. Thanks for forcing a static right column in addition to floating the content in the center of the page. Just look at all that wasted white space over there to the right ============>

The right bar ended way before the comments, and yet here the page goes on, with wasted space, forced into 660px. Wonder how long until it gets totally filled with ads... --MidnightLightning 20:36, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

What does the new look look like? I'm a new admin and I'm not familiar with all these things yet.. can someone explain to me what will happen with the wikis? --XDarkSerenityx 20:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They will all get ruined. That is what will happen. All because of the Wikia Nazis who ask for our feedback and ignore it --Solar Dragon 20:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can see the new look yourself on this very page or any of the betas linked in the post above; just go there, and in the old Monaco skin, go to the "MORE" drop-down in the upper right, and choose "Preferences". Find the "Skin" tab and switch to the "New Look" option and save. --MidnightLightning 20:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Preferences -> Skin -> New Wikia Look. --Dr ishmael 20:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Horrific. --Bara Magna 20:38, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I shed a tear... why can't this be optional? --The Inexistent 20:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because Wikia has become too monolithic and ad-revenue-dependent to care about individual communities anymore. --Dr ishmael 20:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because wikia is becoming basicly a dictatorship that would rather shove pointless new crap down the throats of it's subjects and potentially lose editors than listen to the negative comments of the people --Mackmoron11 20:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Do not want! --LostInRiverview 20:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Congrats on pissing me off. --StaraptorEmpoleon 20:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, thanx for the Notice Wikia..Now i can really enjoy the rest of my day..Just in case u understood this comment like u understand the meaning of the word "Community", that was sarcasm --AlienGamer 20:43, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

As long as monobook is still an option i don't give a fuck ^____^ --TahiriVeila 20:42, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Monobook will not be available after this new skin is pushed on everyone. --Bunai82 22:50, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks to all who replie my last post, one more question: do the admins updat it or do others (from wiki central) automatically update all the wikis on a certain date? --XDarkSerenityx 20:43, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikia central people. If it were the local wiki admins, wikia wouldn't be able to force it because the admins probably wouldn't do the switchover --Mackmoron11 20:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm starting to get this now, thanks... but why??? What was wrong with the wikis before??? --XDarkSerenityx 20:46, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nothing was wrong with the wikis before, they're just changing the 'look' to stay current, supposedly. Though there will be one or two more advertisements per page, so it's likely they need to make more money to continue supporting our sites. --Peteparker 23:14, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

It looks nice, buuuut it has no shoutbox. --Sheepman 20:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Are you seriously thinking of removing Monaco? Wikitroid will lose its awesome Phazon background >:( --RoyboyX 20:47, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, they have stated all along that Monaco will be removed. --Dr ishmael 20:47, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

You will still be able to use that background... it will look great! --Sannse 18:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

KEEP MONACO! Donkey Kong Wiki has an awesome MONACO skin, and I do not want to settle down for a terrible new one. Haven't you guys seen the massive oppostion to this?! and and finally  --HavocReaper48 20:47, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

how can you call this crap important without choking? --Legoace342 20:50, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Could somebody explain to me, will I have to move the css at Monaco.css to Monobook.css? What's the difference? --BeardedBee 20:50, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just changed preferences. Wow. I miss the side bar :-/ --BeardedBee 20:59, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

You will need to move some CSS from common.css to wikia.css if you have anything custom in there. And a few wikis with content area code in monaco.css will need to move that too. But most wikis don't have anything in there that needs moving, so can just use the Theme Designer to change their color scheme to whatever they want --Sannse 18:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the reply. --92.9.74.31 18:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Basically what they are saying is that people are to stupid, so the best way for wiki to change is by making them all the same but you can change the colors so its still at minimal customizable. Whats worse is because of this my wiki's content needs to be cut by about 95% because the repressive lack of space for the text and the ignorance of how they deal with the pictures. Thanks staff for doing what you choose. --Salubri 20:50, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

guys how am i supposed to take care of my wiki? --Jaisen870 20:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

You will still be able to look after your wiki as before. There's nothing changing that will stop that --Sannse 18:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

THIS SUCKS --Dancing Penguin 20:52, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ouch --Fall 50 cal. 20:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * This sucks indeed. --LumpAss78 20:56, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm super mad at Wikia. Will you FUCKING READ THE COMMENTS --Dancing Penguin 21:00, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

We are reading all the comments, will you please keep them civil --Sannse 18:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I don't like the new linking system. It is an epic downgrade from the last one. --ZeroExalted 20:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Just great... -__-

):{ --The Forgotten Beast 20:59, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

New look= sucks= Death of Wikia --XIII-DARKNESS 21:00, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Um, how about no? How about the skin be optional? No, better yet, how about we just settle on having no skin at all. It's crappy and it's copying wikia. Make the skin optional. NOW. --YoshiEgg 21:02, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree. We should have a choice. --Micool26 21:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and I just noticed..One of their "Test Sites" in the Muppet Wiki, already had small content space, check it with Monaco....WOW, u really chose the safest community, with the least hate to try it out on --AlienGamer 21:02, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * A large portion of the Staff came from the muppet wiki, and are still active there. --Peteparker 23:10, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's one staff member, and two helpers -- although I may have miscounted. --Sannse 18:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I am tired of complaining, so I will say this calmly. Wikia, please, realize we don't like this skin. --TheHomer 21:03, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I dont think they will relize this, they will just continue on, with there empty mindedness that OMGZ THIS IZ THE BETZ THING EVER TO HAPPEN ON WIKIA!!!! --XIII-DARKNESS 21:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Why not disable comments? its not like you read/care anyway --112.135.111.142 21:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Can the new look be optional? We need the Monaco or at least some kind of menu! --TheWWC2 21:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

There is a horizontal menu above the content area. The current menu will be copied over for you to adjust for the new format --Sannse 18:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Meh --Bluestripe the Wild 21:08, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Sarah on Content Width "Shorter line lengths make it easier to read pages, encouraging visitors to stay on the page longer and read more. It also works well with the overall design and complements the standard ad units on the page. We’ve found that overall, fixed width simply looks better."

Thanx for deciding for us on what looks better on Wikia's u dont even visit.. --AlienGamer 21:09, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Well, there you go. 100 odd comments, mostly negative. Really, this should be telling you all you need to know - the community does not want it. The community - y'know, the actual users who produce the very content you're trying to showcase. The community, who are the actual users of this skin. The community, who are going to have to adapt to this. This is who you should be catering for. We're the ones who have to use it. Give us something good to work with, and let us worry about the readers. I think we have enough experience in that regard. I understand the need to generate revenue and appease advertisers, but several of the items you have declared off limits to change in your new terms of service do nothing are ludicrous.

Specifically: "It’s not permitted to remove [...] blogs, and image attribution"

Several wikis I am on have blogs currently either disabled by community vote, or restricted to certain content. I echo Darth Culator's statement below that I will continue to enforce these rules. Foisting them on wikis that have chosen to not use them is against the will of the community.

As for image attribution ... well, where do I begin? Forcing us to have an "Added by X" that we can't remove? Well, thanks for ruining the articles. Some of us produce our articles as "in-universe" works, and adding that just completely ruins the feel of the article. It's distracting to say the least, and the fact that it includes the user avatar image makes it worse. Furthermore, I would question the possible legality of attributing an image that - in the case of the Harry Potter Wiki for instance - is copyrighted to Warner Bros to an individual user. Surely, this would not be allowed under the current image usage guidelines? --Cavalier One 21:09, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Blogs will still be optional when we release the new look - but shouldn't be removed with CSS and JS. We need you to contact us via Special:Contact if you need changes like this. I'll update the policy page to clarify this bit.

Image attribution lists the person who added the image, there are no copyright implications to that name being shown.

We absolutely want this change to be good for the existing community, and we are sure it will be. We also want to build a site that is right for the future community. The transition may be hard for some current users, but this is a change that will benefit all the wikis on Wikia in the long-term. --Sannse 18:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Nobody likes this idea. Is the next big project planned? I can tell you what it will be -- exporting wiki data to more ompetent hosting. --Captainmike 21:09, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good point; anyone have good suggestions for Wikia alternatives for MediaWiki (or other wiki engines) hosting? --MidnightLightning 21:16, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * ShoutWiki Its monobook, bit its better than this --AlienGamer 21:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I dare you to make the look optional. Seeing as you have the code to keep both, WHY THE FUCK NOT? As you can see, thousands of wiki users hate the new skin and you just keep ignoring them. if you do not want to fix it, then let us keep the old one as well. --Godisme 21:09, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Quartz was for Wikia what Millennium was for Microsoft.

Wikia will be for Wikia what Vista was for Microsoft. --GTAAAF 21:10, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * A big pile of fail that needed so many fixes before it was halfway useful? (Yes, I'm a Vista user). --Resa1983 21:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, a big pile of sh** that they try to save without success until finally admitting their mistake and start as quickly as possible to create a decent product and slowly regain the trust of his users. --GTAAAF 21:49, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I feel like I'm taking the SAT's :) --Peteparker 23:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I like the look but please don't change the option for monaco. Let's keep it -    these guys are right. Who's with me?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --HeyMrDJ 21:18, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Everyone here obviously --AlienGamer 21:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm from the Madonna wiki. [] --HeyMrDJ 21:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please come to my wiki, Madonna fans. --HeyMrDJ 21:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * UGH!!!!! I'm a looged-out user. I can see the new look already. I HATE IT!!!!!! I'm with you!!!!! --99.38.236.150 21:23, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your'e a good wiki creater. --99.38.236.150 21:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * *groan* --Animusic 21:26, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, yeah. I'm not the creater. --HeyMrDJ 21:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems the individuality of wikis is being taken away, which is a real shame.
 * I'm all for keeping the monaco; it took a long time to customise it.
 * 81% of the 49 people who voted on a pole on the wiki I admin said they preferred the custom wiki style I put up, while 32/49 voted "Yeah, it's great!"
 * ! --BeardedBee 21:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 81% of the 49 people who voted on a pole on the wiki I admin said they preferred the custom wiki style I put up, while 32/49 voted "Yeah, it's great!"
 * ! --BeardedBee 21:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah. --HeyMrDJ 21:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have to go now. --HeyMrDJ 21:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Bye! --HeyMrDJ 21:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah.... --Animusic 21:38, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm the creator of the madonna wiki. --Animusic 21:38, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I hate it. It has completely and totally ruined both the Ed, Edd n Eddy wiki and the Teen Titans wiki. --75.71.39.16 17:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

We on Modern Wikia just got our glossy look for the sidebar! WE BETTER AS SO MUCH GET THE GLOSSY LOOK FOR THE NEW SKIN! Furthermore, PAGE BACKGROUNDS BETTER BE ENABLED, AND NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT SKIN BACKGROUNDS!!!!! >:( --Andromeda Vadum 21:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

So look like we have about a month to find a new home and build a new site then.

Should boosts the sales of servers and provide a bit of work for some web hosts then to help the economy in some countries.

The Lehman Brothers Sign was up for sale recently, how long before the Wikia one joins it !!

Loose the plot and look were it ends up ! --BulldozerD11 21:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

About the big Wikia bar at the top of the new skin.. I'm an admin of a wiki for an MMO, so if someone ends up on it, it's likely they're interested in something to do with the game. While they may have some interest in it, the vast majority of the time they actually spend on the wiki would be hindered by the overbearing bar.

Considering transferring the wiki to be hosted elsewhere tbh. I feel wikia is offering less and less. --BeardedBee 21:28, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, I am either going to like or hate this. --Zeta1127,89thLegion 21:28, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah. --HeyMrDJ 21:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Please I hate it. --HeyMrDJ 21:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Well...this will be good. I mean, whats so hard about keeping stuff optional these days.. Forced skin, forced width, forced image attribution (I still don't get the point of that when a wiki is a community effort) --Kingcjc 21:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

ugh --HeyMrDJ 21:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Please do not take away our regular Monaco wikia still. I've actually liked going through different wikias (when needed not just random) and look at their own styled home pages and the way things are now is fine. It also doesn't help when, Reborn! Wikia, was going to make the home page skin look cooler but now we've had to put the project on hold. Thanks for letting the admins of wikias know what's best for them. --Chrome9669 21:31, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * On the new look, even re current skin will barely work. --XIII-DARKNESS 21:36, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I dont know what you mean, but the current skin will be disabled as a whole. --AlienGamer 21:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

bye --HeyMrDJ 21:31, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

hey guys you know on the commander fox file in the clone wars wikia how do you get the tables to be red and give like Born 22-BBY or Die 33-BBY --Commando Jj 21:31, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

hi im new here --Commando Jj 21:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * me too. I joined 5 days ago. --HeyMrDJ 21:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * how do i do those table things aroung pics --Commando Jj 21:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

ugh --HeyMrDJ 21:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I can't say im excited about the new look, but i guess it's alright... --Sailor sofia 21:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm new here also, i just got the message and decided to check it out, im new to this wiki --Sailor sofia 21:33, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

hello? --Commando Jj 21:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

hi! --HeyMrDJ 21:33, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

hello? --HeyMrDJ 21:33, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

hi all --Commando Jj 21:33, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

woops sorry --Commando Jj 21:33, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

do you edit star wars the clone wars wiki --Commando Jj 21:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

what's wrong? --HeyMrDJ 21:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * nothing --Commando Jj 21:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

-_- . . . --Steelearth14 21:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

i edit on the animal crossing wiki....... --Sailor sofia 21:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * i edit on the star wars the clone wars wiki :( --Commando Jj 21:36, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I edit on the madonna wiki :D --Animusic 21:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * i can't say im happy about the new looks, how about you? --Sailor sofia 21:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * no.... i don't like it. --Animusic 21:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * after becoming a bureacrat(not sure i spelled that right)now i have to deal with this? it's just even more confusing... --Sailor sofia 21:42, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

anyone there? --Commando Jj 21:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

sweet --Commando Jj 21:38, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

bye all ill be on tomarrow --Commando Jj 21:38, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * ok bye --Sailor sofia 21:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

one thing how do i get those thing around the first pic in thee article like it says the name and has some links on it --Commando Jj 21:40, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

ok bye --Animusic 21:40, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

GOD! this is not your social hub, some people actually want to talk about the Retarded new skin, which everyone hates --XIII-DARKNESS 21:40, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

If your going to remove Monaco could you replace it with a kind of system that has the same efect though is easier to operate. --Mazeka369 21:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Up until I read that it wasn't possible to modify the fixed width, I thought this was merely a heavy-handed and misguided attempt at unwanted changes. When I read about not being able to modify the fixed width, I thought this entire post was a joke.

But sadly, this is not a joke. Unless Monaco remains an option, the Dungeons and Dragons Wiki will be departing Wikia. If any other wiki is interested in departing because of these changes, but lacks the technical knowledge for doing so, I encourage you to contact me -- on my talk page either here or on my wiki. --Surgo 21:43, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd like to have details on that actually. Could you help out? --AlienGamer 21:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * "If any other wiki is interested in departing because of these changes, but lacks the technical knowledge for doing so, I encourage you to contact me"
 * Exactly what I was looking for. --BeardedBee 21:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly what I was looking for. --BeardedBee 21:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's really good to see that you're still serious about leaving, Surgo.
 * I agree with him entirely, and encourage people to just get out of Dodge at this point. It's not funny anymore. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with him entirely, and encourage people to just get out of Dodge at this point. It's not funny anymore. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

"creativity is still an essential part of Wikia.", how can you say that if you are making it impossible for the community to edit it's appearance however they want? --ZamorakO o 21:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * i know! the animal crossing wiki just got a new skin that was custom made! and now we're going to lose all the hard work!?! --Sailor sofia 21:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * So true, Wikia is just honestly being ignorant. --Seahorseruler 22:09, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

''It’s not permitted to ... alter the fixed width.''

In that case, when setting the width., please remember that not all visitors - or editors - will have up-to-date displays. If Wikia must have one width for all, at least try to make it one that does not make the wikis effectively unusable for those with older displays. --Dharden 21:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

We are testing the new skin on different browsers as well as displays. The fixed width helps by maintaining a constant size for the content area across a variety sizes. --Sarah Manley 18:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * As well as shrinking the article, making it look horrible and ugly. Congratulations Wikia! You made the one thing I truly hated forced on us. I always hated Fixed Width and told everyone NO when they asked if we would want it. Now, you force the one think I hated on us along with other things I hate. well done Sarah and the rest of the Wikia Staff. You NEVER listen to the negative feedback. I am leaving come end of October. The only way to stop me will be to call this whole thing off. --Solar Dragon 18:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

"Date of Last Revision: January 1, 2009"

"In keeping with the goals of the new look, our Terms of Use have been updated as well."

I know I am no mathematician nor English major, but doesn't "have" mean you updated it since 2009? --Bluesonic43 21:46, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * She just changed it 2 minutes ago.
 * And I thought Wikia couldn't fail more. --Gourra 21:54, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Which means they do read these comments :P --AlienGamer 21:56, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They read but dont really listen --XIII-DARKNESS 22:00, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

In that case, someone else in the office read your comment and poked me to fix it:)

But, yes, we are reading all comments. --Sannse 18:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

tis is all just so confusing for me...this is too complex for a middle schooler... --Sailor sofia 21:49, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok here is the simple version:
 * Wikia is changing the skin and making monaco (the skin currently used on most wikis) unusable. They are also removing the widgets (including the shoutbox) and making it so that admins of wikis cant get rid of things the community votes against, such as blogs. All of this combined makes it so that the people using wikia wikis have virtually no freedom to change how things look and behave, and it's all one more step towards wikia becoming the dictatorship it apparently wants to be... --Mackmoron11 21:59, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * great, now i have to tell the other admins on the wiki about this.... --Sailor sofia 22:00, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * No where did I read that they are forcing the Blogs onto wikis. You just can't remove them if you already have them. Or at least if you do, the module on the side. --Bluesonic43 22:02, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

As Bluesonic says, blogs can be removed on request (please use Special:Contact) but shouldn't be removed by CSS or JS changes on the wiki --Sannse 18:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Seems kind of unnecessary, but obviously there is surely no point in trying to argue with this change. --Dubiel 21:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * There is a point to arguing against it, but wikia has made it quite clear that they don't care about our opinions, so the only solution now is to leave probably... --Mackmoron11 22:01, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I might leave sadly....animal crossing wiki is going to have to find a new bureacrat then...and i dunno if i spelled that right... --Sailor sofia 22:03, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know, right! They claim they "care" about what the so called "Community" as they describe it thinks, but so far they have not shown a single way that they care what we think. Out of every suggestion I have been seen made, not one has been added to the skin, not one. --Seahorseruler 22:11, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * all my wiki's hard work on making the skin...gone.... --Sailor sofia 22:13, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, of course they care about the Community's suggestions. They read them carefully and then do the opposite. --P4 22:15, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Keep Monaco, for God's sakes. --FalcoPunch 21:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

i think maybe they should consider OTHER people's opinions about this. --Sailor sofia 22:10, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

OK, here's a suggestion: stretch that sidebar (I'll call it the "Unrelated Content") to 50% of the page width. Fill the rest with ads. Nobody reads all that text anyway - we're visiting encyclopaedias to browse images, spam our friends by sharing those, and - of course - to watch beautiful, shiny ads. --P4 22:11, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Does this include the answers wikis? Are they going to be changed to the new look in this timeframe as well? You should make it clear in the post, one way or the other so that people know where they stand. --Yyp 22:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello no. The answers wikis are going to stay partially broken, as they always will be. --Fandyllic 22:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Lol, probably true, though I see that some (minor) problems have been fixed lately, at least on Bleach Answers. Found on their [New Look FAQ http://community.wikia.com/wiki/The_new_look_2#Is_the_answers_skin_changing_also.3F]:
 * "Right now it is staying as is. Eventually we will be modifying it to work on new skin, but there is no schedule for that yet." --Yyp 23:48, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Right now it is staying as is. Eventually we will be modifying it to work on new skin, but there is no schedule for that yet." --Yyp 23:48, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Answers wikis are going to remain on their current skins for now -- they aren't included in this schedule --Sannse 18:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I'm really quite curious as to exactly why the Terms of Use had to be changed. Why are any of the 'practical examples' bad in any way?

Did the advertisement companies suggest that, too? >:( --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I think I just figured out why you have *really* been doing this beta test. (After all, it's become obvious that it's not because you want to improve the new skin.) It's so that you can figure out the features that are hated most. Then you "protect" them, so they can't be customized away. --Greer Watson 22:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Aha! There's my answer. Thanks, Greer. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:23, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

So MLNWiki will not be changed in the CSS then? --Joeman200 22:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I am not quite what you are referring to. Please provide us with a few more details as to what you mean. --Sarah Manley 18:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

How hard is it to read the plethora of negative comments and actually listen to what they say? --Omega Tyrant 22:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Personally I like how Wikia opened the beta, for all of one week, then do nothing with the suggestions they have recieved. It seems that the opinion is very negative to why have none of the suggestions have been taken into account. This blog is only a few hours old at this point, and there already have bene a lot of negative comments. I'd really like a staff member to say what they did with all the comments that were offered in the blogs and provide some feedback about why nothing has been done with them. One week isn't enough time to beta test anything, let along anything on this scale, and then do nothing when more and more negative comments keep coming in.

My opinion, keep Moncao, which a lot of people have asked for, and then make it a community vote on every wiki about what skin they will use. If that doesn't work, then leave it up to each user becuase agian the opinion here is really negative of the new skin. Unnecessary extra space, unnecessary toolbars, shrinking of the sidebar that so many wikis rely on for easy site navagation, and I can go on for some time. --Lancer1289 22:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Voting is a good idea indeed. Vault Wiki, at the very least, has already started a poll on it. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:28, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just started one on the ME wiki, and I really just want one staff member to give a serious response as to what they have to say about all the negative comments that they have recieved. Not some PR reason saything "This is for the better", an actual response. I think someone said eariler that all of the responses that the staff gave were basically PR ones.
 * Is one serious answer really that hard to ask becuase judging by the staff comments so far, apparently so. --Lancer1289 22:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is one serious answer really that hard to ask becuase judging by the staff comments so far, apparently so. --Lancer1289 22:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're unlikely to get a proper response out of staff at this point, yeah. But we aren't paying them, so they'll not listen to us any time soon. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Here here. Long ago there was apparently the Quartz skin, the new one seems to be Quartz plus a few features copied from Facebook. No idea why they'd get rid of it just to later bring back a shinier version. --Darthkenobi0 23:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Private beta testing began in early August, and many changes in the new look have been driven by direct user feedback. The collection and review of feedback is a process we are continuing now with the public beta. We also will continue to tweak the new look as we move forward. Next week we will be posting a beta recap with more direct examples of the changes that have been motivated by user feedback. --Sarah Manley 19:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

No, no no no. Fuck this shit. Terms of use not allowing you to change it for everyone is just so stupid! Wikia staff has had their heads up their asses ever since they started this BULLSHIT FUCKING AWFUL CHANGE. --Frank-West 22:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Frank, I understand you are upset, but please keep it civil. Thanks --Sannse 18:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

This is just SO INCREDIBLY STUPID that it's just... It's so bad it's horrible. This isn't even shit, this is the equivalent of shit TAKING A SHIT. That's how bad the new skin is. --Frank-West 22:36, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Can't we keep Monaco? It's easier to use. --Smoketail88 22:40, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

sadly i did not see this coming. i assumed the change was for the default and not for phasing out monaco. gaming wikis are (mostly) heavily dependent upon monaco to work. helpers and gaming staff set them up that way. too bad this will discard all that work. --Dr. Clayton Forrestor 22:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

All of the content on all wikis, including gaming wikis, will remain on as they are switched over. Wikis will have the opportunity to design a new custom theme or choose from a variety of pre-set themes we have designed. --Sarah Manley 19:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Will that include a larger sidebar, becuase most if not all gaming wikis are extremely dependent upon it to work and assist in site navigation. I see many new and usless navigation articles, that will be created as part of this switch. With the sidebar, they wouldn't be needed. Again 32 links isn't enough for most wikis. Would like to see the thought process that went into that. --Lancer1289 19:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Because I am too lazy to make it a link: http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Wikia_overhaul%3F

I would guess that everyone in that conversation has made (collectivly) more than 100,000 edits all over wikia. Almost all want to leave if this crap becomes a reality. They even want to move the wiki. Why can't you listen to everyone that has said this is pointless? Oh, wait, that is almost everybody... --The Inexistent 22:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * If they want to move, then more power to them. There're plenty of other wiki farm sites out there that aren't going to interfere with content. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:49, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Nooooo. --TimeMaster 22:46, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I think the new skin is great. I saw it on the Red Dead wiki, and I like what they did with it. However, I'm vehemently opposed to the removal of the old skin. Options are always a good thing; taking away those options, not so much. --Deadlykris 22:48, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

"This has been a very useful process and we are still gathering feedback and bug reports from all testing groups"

Has it really? All I see is people hating and hating and complaining about the new look, about things that need to change about it and yet you INSIST on shoving it down our throats. Are you really gathering feedback? Are you even reading at least 1% of the comments you get on this New Look? NOBODY wants it because there are so many things that are wrong with it.

Sidebar size is crushing the articles. It gives priority to advertising other wikis, where it should give more importance to the CONTENT of the article. They look completely crammed and awful, I don't even want to think of those articles with tables, pictures infoboxes. This is killer for fuctionality and all for advertising. When did Wikia become a site for self Advertising is beyond me.

Showing the names of the editors anywhere on the article is the stupidest idea ever. But showing the name of the uploader of EVERY picture is simply wrong. It adds nothing to the articles, kills aesthetics, and let's not talk about users with long names, or names such as "jivkylflg". I don't even want to think about it.

I mentioned this in another blog, but I'm repeating it here I was under the delusional impression that Wikia was a Community, yet even if the Community shows a general disapproval for the Change, central Wiki isn't giving any solutions or propositions that will make this change more functional and likeable to the Community. It's a "Like it, good. Don't like it, Die" business that will end up messing up with most wikis. I've seen people from LOT of different wikis here to showcase their dislike for this New Look and Central isn't providing satisfactory answers or solutions to them.

You have to understand that we don't oppose change. We oppose the way you're giving us that change because it is not functional and it is totally against the Wiki concept in itself. Wikis are encyclopedias, Wikis are meant to gather information, they're about their articles, yet you're compartmentalizing articles to give more space for Ads. It's absolute nonsense --Lia Schiffer 22:49, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's 'Like it, good. Don't like it, say hello to our legal team.'
 * ToU edits are to prove that Wikia doesn't like us ruining their sites with content. :/ --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:55, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * ToU edits are to prove that Wikia doesn't like us ruining their sites with content. :/ --Nitpicker of the Wastes 22:55, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you pretty much summed up what acutally happened and what is going to happen. Again is a simple answer so hard to ask for about the tyrade of negative comments that have been posted. --Lancer1289 22:55, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

One word.

Ridiculous. --D-day 22:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Weird. There's like a brand new update every week here. --GameGear360 22:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

one word -WHAT --Babyphat234 22:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

For this whole time, I had hope that Wikia will listen to us. But this won't happen. It's sad, but our only way is to leave. This is the purpose of the new skin? To lose the contributors? Now I know one thing for sure - Wikia Staff doesn't care about us. --Final Cannon 22:54, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wonderful. So they ignore all the negative feedback and continue to shove this new look on all wikias as if our feedback meant nothing at all. Now I know that there are a few (that number has to be in the single digits or double at most) that want this new look, so why not make this optional? After all, if Wikia is all about "the community" shouldn't the individual Wikia communities have the choice on whether or not they want the new look or not? I mean, looking at all the new changes you'd think they were turning Wikia into a Facebook-wannabe. And I've seen the so-called beta sites where they're being tested and it looks absolutely dreadful. If this change gets shoved down our throats I may very well just quit Wikia altogether. No point in staying if the reason why you like the sites in the first place is being thrown out the window. --Ten Tailed Fox 22:55, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm skeptical about all of the new layout business myself, but I personally am most worried about this business about not being able to get rid of blogs, massive amounts of blogging take away the key function of a wiki. And I believe I referenced Facebook once... good God I wasn't going crazy. --Darthkenobi0 23:18, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * This whole thing is incredibly stupid. I don't care that Wikia wants to add a new look; that's all fine in my book, but they should at least make it optional. Not every Wiki is an encyclopedia; I get that. What I don't get is why all the Wikis that ARE encyclopedias like Star Wars Wiki or Bleach Wiki have to either get rid of the majority of their information and pictures or move to a new host site just because the Wikia staff REFUSE to listen to it's userbase.
 * Their plan is about to backfire on them, because from what I've heard, several wikis are moving to new hosts if the change goes into effect, my wikis included. This new look will even destroy the infoboxes on the various Wikis, and some wiki, like Bleach Wiki and my own Bleach Fanfiction wiki or Naruto and Star Wars Wiki have worked hard customizing their infoboxes to be unique to thier sites and now it's all gonna be thrown away. I'd be more sympathetic if the Staff was actually responding to criticism like this, but it's all, for the most part, being completely ignored. I've made up my mind; if these changes go through, I'm quitting Wikia. I can find a Wiki-like site that can accomplish the same thing without all the new look crap. --Ten Tailed Fox 03:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Their plan is about to backfire on them, because from what I've heard, several wikis are moving to new hosts if the change goes into effect, my wikis included. This new look will even destroy the infoboxes on the various Wikis, and some wiki, like Bleach Wiki and my own Bleach Fanfiction wiki or Naruto and Star Wars Wiki have worked hard customizing their infoboxes to be unique to thier sites and now it's all gonna be thrown away. I'd be more sympathetic if the Staff was actually responding to criticism like this, but it's all, for the most part, being completely ignored. I've made up my mind; if these changes go through, I'm quitting Wikia. I can find a Wiki-like site that can accomplish the same thing without all the new look crap. --Ten Tailed Fox 03:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

@Darthkenobi0, Blogs will still be optional when we release the new look - but shouldn't be removed with CSS and JS. We need you to contact us via Special:Contact if you need changes like this. --Sarah Manley 19:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I like this the way it is, I don't know why these guys don't. --Reikson 23:15, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Skeptical about the skin, but hey we use their servers but we don't have to stay. If so many of us have a problem with Wikia's conduct why don't we form a new company? They have no legal obligation to listen to us, go ahead Wikia, but you're losing a good chunk of your userbase. --Darthkenobi0 23:20, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * ShoutWiki was mentioned by an earlier post. Go there before thinking about starting a whole company. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * My point was not that we should, but that Wikia has to realize that without the users they are nothing, and if we seriously wanted to split we could. As it stands the largest Wikis are all for VERY LARGE franchises, and I have no doubt some of the companies would be willing to talk about adopting the wikis as a matter of increased advertisement, seeing as those wikis (Most prominently Wookieepedia) already provide complete encyclopedias on their given subjects. Honestly, Wikia... wake up and please stop pretending you're listening, we'd have less to say if you were honest about the whole thing. --Darthkenobi0 23:25, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, now there's an idea! I should go run that by our bureaus. :D --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:28, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I forget which it was, but it has happened. I'm going to suggest it on Call of Duty Wiki, I'd think Wookieepedia and Halopedia might have success. --Darthkenobi0 23:36, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia, the majority of your wikis disapprove of the new skin. So, you're going to at least make it optional. Because, if you don't, you're guaranteed to lose a literal shitload of members and wikis. Listen to us, for once.

To all the people commenting, I think that we should make them listen to us. We've tried polls, we've commented in immense amounts, but I think we have to take a direct approach. Editing staff's talk pages, much? Telling them that they have to listen to us, much? Tell them that they're making a horrible move, much? I say yes. (Though I doubt anyone will actually read this comment, considering the flooding of new comments every millisecond.) --YoshiEgg 23:26, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, trolling talk pages is certainly not the way to go. Darthkenobi and a bunch of the others have suggested leaving, which would be a better alternative (especially because it'll cut quite a bit into the profit that Wikia's looking to gain from this). --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the credit Nitpicker, I really think if they're going to give us something that we honestly can't stand, we leave. I'm not sure about a lot of others, but I'd say this is the time to start talking to the franchises we write about. --Darthkenobi0 23:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * The franchises will be a whole other can of worms, because negative views there will be quashed in a similar manner to here, but I'd rather take my chances with them than stand another moment of being ignored. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * At least the franchises would ensure accuracy and bring stability to the encyclopedia portions, and often have their own forums for the exchange of ideas. Even if we weed out some users, the wikis will be better off with a franchise, imo, at least better off than with constant changes being made without any actual feedback. --Darthkenobi0 23:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm actually reading all the way down to the end, where I think sanse (the idiot!) is replying. --75.71.39.16 18:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Forwarding this so that the staffers can see: http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=User_blog_comment:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look/@comment-Cavalier_One-20100928210926&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=561911

"Furthermore, I would question the possible legality of attributing an image that - in the case of the Harry Potter Wiki for instance - is copyrighted to Warner Bros to an individual user. Surely, this would not be allowed under the current image usage guidelines?" --Gourra 23:28, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd like a staff response to this as well. I've been wondering about it for a while. What is wikia's take on how this affects everything we've been told about copyright on wikis? Cause (putting aside my utter hatred of the image attribution you are proposing), it confuses me how you think this is right based on your guidelines. --Yyp 23:52, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

There aren't any copyright implications to displaying who uploaded an image... it's the same information that's already on the image information page --Sannse 19:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I just checked out there testers and the pages are horrible. There is soooo much space used up for advertisements that pages that have templates, many pics, and a lot of information will all be squished and look unorganized. Not only that but putting people's name on he bottom of the pics on the article stinks too. At Reborn! wikia that would hurt because we basically have one main person that gives us all the pics but he doesn't want his name on over 500 hundred images in the articles...that makes it look like the others don't really do anything... *sighs* I guess everyone will just have to discuss to move their wikia somewhere else since you guys are not listening to everyone. --Chrome9669 23:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Are you saying that site notices aren't allowed? --Airhogs777 23:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Site notices won't work in the new look, they're replaced with something different. --Peteparker 23:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

You will be able to use the community corner for message that were formally in the site notice. Users will see a notification bubble when the community corner is updated. --Sarah Manley 19:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, cool. That is an amazing feature. A user sees the bubble, clicks away from it and ignores the message! Amazing Wikia, bloody amazing! --Solar Dragon 19:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * MediaWiki:Community-messages, now was it? According to the transition guide, that's what it was called and I have yet to see it work at the RuneScape Wiki. --Bluesonic43 19:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

So what you're saying is, admins aren't allowed to personalize wikis for their core audience.

"This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design."

Why must all wikis have a "universal layout"?? This is totally against everything you guys have been saying over the years. A complete reversal of the let every wiki foster it's own community and style. Wikis used to be able to decide how their wiki should look, and what features are best for that. And Wikia staff used to care about that. But now I see you care more about advertisers and lawyers.

Guess what? Not every wiki wants a new image gallery. Nor do they want a latest blog post widget, when not all wikis revolve around blogs. Work with us Wikia, and you might win back a lot of folks who you have alienated.

1 month is not enough time for all the work this "new skin' needs. It needs more than bug fixes and you know it.

Since the new terms aren't clear, here's the diff for everyone: http://www.wikia.com/index.php?title=Terms_of_Use&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=5011

"You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. There are plenty of ways to be creative! While these terms will limit what you can do to the overall layout, creativity is still an essential part of Wikia."

This is a hilarious joke. You just admitted you have severely limited every wiki with your new legalese, and then pretend like creativity matters. Don't do that. If creativity mattered, you wouldn't have just maimed us. --LordTBT 23:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well said LordTBT, well said. --Darthkenobi0 23:33, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, Wikia has completely destroyed what it stood for: An open source wiki that any fanboy (or fangirl) of any subject could edit. --75.71.39.16 18:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Nitpicker: You have a point, there. But it may be our last chance. And, IMO, if we leave, they win. --YoshiEgg 23:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * How do they win if we leave? The purpose of the New Look (I WILL NEVER CALL IT WIKIA) is to draw in more users. Losing users is losing content is losing ad space is losing money, and this game is all about the cashola. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:40, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess they are trading new users for experienced ones, though their method removes any need for actual editing abilities. --Darthkenobi0 23:43, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I get what you mean, Nitpicker. In the long run, they will lose. But they'll be bathing in money for the first month or two, which is not what we want to happen. But we should try a liiiiittle harder to get them to get their shit together.
 * EDIT: Also, at this point, the New Look doesn't seem like it's drawing any new users in. And I hope it doesn't. --YoshiEgg 23:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Also, at this point, the New Look doesn't seem like it's drawing any new users in. And I hope it doesn't. --YoshiEgg 23:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You'd have to take your content with you to really change their cash-flow, since there is always someone new to start another wiki that could be successful. --Peteparker 23:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Darth
 * That's only if new users like the new skin too. They want information on crap, not to be able to show the whole world what a piece of work that Article X is. So, they're trading most old and plenty of new users in exchange for higher salaries.
 * @Peteparker
 * Yup yup. There's another problem. Mass deletions could always work. :P --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Peteparker
 * Yup yup. There's another problem. Mass deletions could always work. :P --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup yup. There's another problem. Mass deletions could always work. :P --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Deletions only work until you're banned by Wikia themselves. --Peteparker 23:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Pete
 * Humph. I don't think that they'd be able to do much with a wiki that loses its admins and bureaucrats.
 * In any event, going to the franchises could lead to more legal implications, which Wikia is keen to throw around to make itself look mean and scary. Such legal implications could easily get the content removed and put somewhere that doesn't have a design staff that's independent from the user base. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * In any event, going to the franchises could lead to more legal implications, which Wikia is keen to throw around to make itself look mean and scary. Such legal implications could easily get the content removed and put somewhere that doesn't have a design staff that's independent from the user base. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * In any event, going to the franchises could lead to more legal implications, which Wikia is keen to throw around to make itself look mean and scary. Such legal implications could easily get the content removed and put somewhere that doesn't have a design staff that's independent from the user base. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can always database dump then upload to another hoast, then request wikia to delete your wiki... --Smiley12 23:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

(Apologies for double post, I'm just trying to get my point fully across, and it may take a few comments to do.)

Wikia, you can't just force this crappy new skin on us. As I said before, almost nobody approves of this. Listen for once, goddamnit! Seriously, this has gone far enough. Are we invisible? '''We don't approve of the skin. We don't want the skin. We HATE the skin'''. Is that clear enough for you? --YoshiEgg 23:38, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They're like Google. The Advertisers pay The Staff to run their ads, and we're just a ploy to popularize the links. The Advertisers have way more say in this than they should, because they're the ones running the "tests" The Staff keep referring to.
 * By the way, Nitpicker, it's probably smart to call the New skin "the New Skin." Think how confused users will be when they see things like "Wikia, I love you, but Wikia is definitely the worst thing that's happened to Wikia in the history of Wikia!" Sure you can figure it out, but can I? --Airhogs777 00:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * By the way, Nitpicker, it's probably smart to call the New skin "the New Skin." Think how confused users will be when they see things like "Wikia, I love you, but Wikia is definitely the worst thing that's happened to Wikia in the history of Wikia!" Sure you can figure it out, but can I? --Airhogs777 00:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, Wikia really is the worst thing to happen to Wikia, in both senses of Wikia. ;) --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * LOSE THE SKIN! WE HATE THE SKIN! LOSE THE SKIN! THIS SKIN STINKS!!!
 * Can you hear me now, Wikia? Oh no, wait, you can't because YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE USERS!!! --75.71.39.16 18:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you hear me now, Wikia? Oh no, wait, you can't because YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE USERS!!! --75.71.39.16 18:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I see the "forced" switch as a completely money-driven decision which is disrespectful to the users of this site who have made it what it is today.

Funny how a site that is based on "community" is pushing changes in a totalitarian way. --Pagoda 23:40, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Me too. I swear, it's aaaaall about the money... --YoshiEgg 23:46, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting... --Thesecret1070 23:48, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia Staff: Can you please post a list of already made suggestions that (so far) you're planning on implementing? It may help with the "No one's listening" bit, and result in less negative feedback.. --Resa1983 23:49, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh? "Negative feedback"? The Staff don't care about that. --Airhogs777 00:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

We've collected a lot of feedback and have made many changes (and will continue to make more based on users' reactions). There will be a summary of the beta test including examples of some of the changes we have made hopefully next week. --Avatar 18:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, yes, that's why everyone's so #@%$ angry!!! --75.71.39.16 19:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Most users reactions are OMG! This is horrible! Stop the update. Will you make the change to stop the update then? --Solar Dragon 19:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I still don't understand what was wrong with the old one. I agree with YoshiEgg - give us a choice! --A-One 23:50, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * They can't monetarily support multiple skins. Having Monobook for Unencyclopedia and it's sister projects and Anwers for the Answers wikis will already be straining their abilities.  They have to reduce the amount of code they're responsible for, by making everyone else use the same thing. --Peteparker 23:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It may sound bogus, but it makes sense in their minds. --Airhogs777 00:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Y'know, I'm really not surprised with this new direction Wikia's taking. First they screw Youtube over and now this? You fail Wikia. You truly, truly fail. --Twilightwizard0309 23:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I have basically built http://talismanonline.wikia.com/wiki/Talisman_Online_Wiki from 3 articles to over 1600 over the past 7 months. It took me days to get the monaco css set the way it is now, and now this is being forced on me. I can tell you that if it ends up destroying what we have created, this wiki will be abandoned, and I will never EVER have anything to do with Wikia ever again. --Wynthyst 23:52, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * See, Wikia?! This is exactly what I'm talking about! A Wiki run by basically one guy (from what I saw.) that he's worked so hard on is about to be ruined by this stupid skin. --YoshiEgg 23:56, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're one user, no offense but you alone won't make much of a difference, if we want them to listen we have to get a group of people to uniformly complain. --Darthkenobi0 23:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, the majority of us are complaining. And we're complaining about the same thing in basically the same way, so I'd call that uniformly complaining. --YoshiEgg 00:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know about you, but I live in a place called America, where voting is in our constitution. --Airhogs777 00:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, the internet isn't bound to American laws. However, I'm pretty sure that all of Wikia's staff and design team hails from democratic nations.
 * Mustn't practise what we preach, oh no. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mustn't practise what we preach, oh no. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * According to Uberfuzzy, those of us complaining are the vast minority of Wikia users, so I wouldn't expect anything to change. I find that pretty amazing, since I have only seen maybe one positive comment since I started reading through these comments. --Wynthyst 01:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I just started doing the same thing with the My Gym Partner's a Monkey Wiki, and now you're gonna run us over? You suck, Wikia. You really, really suck. --75.71.39.16 19:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I just can't believe how ignorant Wikia is being. Stop being such dumbasses and listen. In the words of Pagoda, "Funny how a site that is based on "community" is pushing changes in a totalitarian way." --YoshiEgg 23:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia has 2 Million Page-views a day. I'm not sure they really care about what a few hundred contributors have to deal with. --Peteparker 23:56, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, they should. It's community driven. Everyone should get a say in what happens around here, especially something this big. --YoshiEgg 23:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course they don't care. That's why we're all talking about leaving and molotovs and all that good stuff. :/ --Nitpicker of the Wastes 23:59, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then they shouldn't pretend to care if this is the case. Don't ask for our feedback if it doesn't matter. --LordTBT 00:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly, they should at least be honest about their apathy. --Darthkenobi0 00:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Meh, leave the honesty to private companies. --Airhogs777 00:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

There goes pretty much every thread of "community-run wiki" or personalisation that ever existed. What now? Sterile pages that look identical to one another except for a few colourful backgrounds and a miserably small "wordmark". --Thebrains222 23:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Always look on the bright side of life.
 * Doo-doop, doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doop.
 * You know, if there is one. --Airhogs777 00:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * You know, if there is one. --Airhogs777 00:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * You know, if there is one. --Airhogs777 00:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Here's my example:

I hail from http://www.fantendo.wikia.com, the Nintendo Fanon Wiki. (Which, BTW, is pretty cool, except a lot of n00bs and bots are making it worse.) There are quite a lot of active users on Fantendo, and 99% of us disapprove of the skin. Does Wikia listen? No. Should they? Yes. --YoshiEgg 00:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is also the opinion shared across many other, including some very large wikis, and still Wikia doesn't listen to their commuinty. I have yet to see them respond seriouly to one question here, and somehow I don't think they will. --Lancer1289 00:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly. They've gotta' learn to listen.
 * Everybody: Seriously, I think we should take a direct approach. At this point, there's not much else we can do except post comments that they pretend to listen to. --YoshiEgg 00:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Everybody: Seriously, I think we should take a direct approach. At this point, there's not much else we can do except post comments that they pretend to listen to. --YoshiEgg 00:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikia did listen to Uncyclopedia and the rest of them. Uncyclopedia shouldn't get special treatment just because it's popular and brings in plenty of ad money. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Huh? Didn't hear about that. What exactly did they listen to? --YoshiEgg 00:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uncyclopedia will get to keep the specialty version of Monobook that they have, because the New Look isn't suited to mimicing Wikipedia. (Or mimicing an actual article on any decent wiki, either.) --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...'Cause it's Sannse's special pet. --Airhogs777 00:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, I forgot about Sannse liking Uncyclopedia. Makes perfect sense, though. Favouritism beats capitalism beats community's voice. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...Oh, wow. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Honestly?! If they get to keep it, then we should, too. --YoshiEgg 00:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you want the new skin?
 * Yes
 * No
 * No
 * No
 * No
 * No
 * No
 * No
 * No
 * ...NO!
 * --Orange Yoda 00:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Orange Yoda 00:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

actually i like the new look, my opinion --Monster2821 00:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's fine, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.
 * But your opinion shouldn't be their excuse to make the rest of us like it. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * But your opinion shouldn't be their excuse to make the rest of us like it. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think force would be a more appropiate term. --Lancer1289 00:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * But don't you think a .02% approval rate is sufficient opinion to force a change on the other 99.98%? --Airhogs777 00:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * To be fair, Airhogs, somebody somewhere must really like it. It's rule of tyranny over Wikia, but I dunno if it's rule of the majority or the minority. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I don't like it. It's way too narrow. Every page on my wiki will have to be redone. I have a 22" monitor and I would like to use the rest of the 1000 pixel! --Bobofango 00:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Users are spending their free time editing while wikia is making buttloads of money. The least they could do is make the new skin an option.

There's no way in hell I am fixing up 2000 pages to fit the new skin. A majority of other people feel the same way, and what you're left with is 1,000,000 articles left looking like crap due to the format. --Bobofango 00:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * With 150,000 wikis or whatever it is, I doubt it's only 1 million articles that need reformatting. --Airhogs777 00:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's exactly what I said! Seriously, this is bullcrap. Utter bullcrap. --YoshiEgg 00:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Format: Sucks. Articles (as they stand currently): Suck. Wikis: Suck. Wikia: Ignoring everybody who is posting here (except for the 2% who think that the totalitarianistic structure is good). --75.71.39.16 18:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I want ARTICLE SPACE --Bunai82 00:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * And I want licorice. Life's not all candycanes. I'm really talking to myself. --Airhogs777 00:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I want ARTICLE SPACE --Bunai82 00:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

...I really don't like the new skin idea! It's..... ... frankly, just... stupid. --Orange Yoda 00:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Me neither. (Also, hi, OY. Long time no see.) --YoshiEgg 00:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

0.o

I agree with bobofangoooooo --TWF-headquarters 00:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Hey infidels! We don't want your stinking skin! We especially don't want the right to use monaco stripped from us!

Furtler, how dare you forbid us to edit our wiki's CSS, you hypocrites!

What, are you afraid that we'll alter Oasis so that we can actually tolerate it at the expense of removing your corporate puppeteer's big ads and a tacky right-facing sidebar that BELONGS ON THE LEFT?

I have always been a big fan of capitalism. I can tolerate advertisements, banners, and the occasional pop-up. I understand the purpose of affliates, related links, and images. I respect that you need advertiser dollars, and when I signed up, I knew that I was to obey the corporate policy.

This, though, is ridiculous. Even Wikipedia has a section on your controversy.

Why are you exempting Uncyclopedia? Shouldn't THEY be forced to obey your rules? Hypocrates.

 -- † TurtleShroom™! Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! †    :)  :)  HEAR OUR VOICE, WE WANT CHOICE!! 00:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)   --TurtleShroom 00:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Woah, Wikipedia has a section on the controversy?
 * It must be baaaad. Got a link anywhere? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It must be baaaad. Got a link anywhere? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well put, TurtleShroom. I might use this comment as an example when and if I send a message to the Wikia Staff. (Which they'll probably ignore. Idiots.) --YoshiEgg 00:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * the epic skins that the MySims wiki has will be destroyed? NOOOOOO!! O.O --Orange Yoda 00:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Nitpicker:
 * Wikia - It's a small paragraph at the bottom at the section. --Airhogs777 00:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. We can alter Oasis however we want, as long as we don't actually remove the stuff we don't want! BRILLIANT!

I could actually tolerate Oaisis if the sidebar was on the left, the image attribution gone, and the Shout Box instated. Wikia Staff, you have turned from corporate role models of mine to the embodiment of infidelity that I vow to NEVER practice when I go into business. The customer is always right. You're lucky you're not a public company. If I had shares in Wikia Inc., I would proudly vote each and every one of you out on the quarterly vote sheet and would vote for anyone else, anyone at all.

If you Staffies actually think you are helping us by cramming this skin down our throats and kicking everyone out of their PREFERENCE on November 3rd, 2010, then you really are the totally incompetant, disrespectful imbeciles I always suspected you to be. Never again will I call you by the terms of endearment I once so graciously used (Master Staff, Staff Almighty, The Staff with capitalization), nor will I mention your names without a remark on your hypocritical, greedy, dishonorable nature.

Oh, and I sent you a letter a while back and never got a response. It seems that you have a grudge against me, and to the CPFW. I fellow bureaucrat that shall remain anonymous (because of his request not to be brought into this) contacted you with a request to demote certain bureaucrats, and you responded that we contact you too much. Hypocrites, your "community" speaks to you and you shut your eyes, ears, and minds!

Let it be known that if you block me infinitely, I'd be martyred, not punished. You see, I am a productive and frequent contributor to your site, with over five thousand edits on my plate. I am passionate and vocal about my work (and will put my Wikia services on my resume), and NEVER have I intentionally damaged a wiki, nor have I spammed or been counterproductive. Banning me for calling you all infidels- and that you are -or for consistently posting angry comments- my right of dissent towards your villainy -would just fuel the fire.

I remember when I made a ton of commentary posts, and you GLOBALLY BLOCKED ME for THREE DAYS for "spam", telling me I needed to "cool down". It was an agonizing wait to get my main account back, and I certainly think you used "spam" as an excuse. I will readily admit that I posted too much and should have consilidated my frustration, but every one of those multi-dozen comments were relative to the topic? Did I go overboard? Absolutely. Did I spam? No. If all of my little rambles and clogging comments are relevant to subject, is it spam? OH, and why a global block? If you were merely stopping my "spam", you would have kicked me off the Community database. Yet, you kicked me off for three days on every wiki. What did you think I would do? Incite a riot? I would only drop this accusation if a global block is all one of you corrupt Staffies can use, but if you can block on one site and chose global instead, I think you have an agenda.

Watch your back, you corrupt, ignorant, forceful fools, because the more you anger the community, the less your business will make.

We, your clients, the ones who use your services, are more important than some infidel who thinks NBC wrote the Muppets Wiki instead of hard working users. We are more important than some doofus on the Twitter that mentions you. We trump any focus group you use. The only focus group you use should be US. I really don't care if some moron can't see the big fat EDIT button at the top. That's their problem, and if they wish to ask any of the users that work on any wiki, they would be honored to help. I know I would.

Don't reinvent the wheel to "help" noobs at the expense of your actual base (I don't even know if your new skin will help them). Just grease up the axle and check the wheel's pressure to make sure it is working. We, the community, can help any new person who wants to help. We don't need you stepping in and ruining our experience. If someone thinks NBC wrote the Muppets Wiki, let them. Not all of us are here for credit or fame.

Some are here because they're nerds who take an enjoyment out of helping people and providing them the service of knowledge, content, and writing. I'm certainly not as humble as that, but I do consider this the one productive thing I do. Take that from me, and I will have nothing... -and I'll certainly know who to take it out on if I ever get any clout in the business world.

Here the voices of the Masses, and let us keep choosing Monaco after November 3rd, 2010. I can live with a new skin, but I can't live without the skin I choose. I would have stayed on Monobook my whole life if it wasn't for the Shout Box. Now, I defend Monaco and I request that you do it the same if you ever want to regain my- and a lot of your community's -respect.

-- † TurtleShroom™! Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! †    :)  :)  HEAR OUR VOICE, WE WANT CHOICE!! 00:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

--TurtleShroom 00:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...Correction, I'm using this one. XD.
 * My God, they globally blocked you?! When you believe strongly about something, you can't "cool down". Wow. Just wow. --YoshiEgg 00:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * My God, they globally blocked you?! When you believe strongly about something, you can't "cool down". Wow. Just wow. --YoshiEgg 00:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * A dollar says that Wikia will block you for "defying" them. That's a fantastic summary of what most of us are thinking! --Thebrains222 00:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If they do, I'll give them a piece of my mind. --YoshiEgg 00:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * # We're not the customers, that's the advertisers
 * # I don't care who thinks NBC wrote it, either. I don't care about attribution as long as I can still contribute to my communities and also put Wikia on my resume. --Airhogs777 00:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like TurtleShroom... they give opinion with notable flare.
 * I really want to see who this Invisible Focus Group was, and give them a good whack in back of the head. They singled handled ruined Wikia wiki. --Bunai82 01:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I really want to see who this Invisible Focus Group was, and give them a good whack in back of the head. They singled handled ruined Wikia wiki. --Bunai82 01:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia may be trying to improve things for everyone but they should LISTEN to what people says. They should provide equality for everyone. --Yukimazan 00:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Define "listen" --Airhogs777 00:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * In response to Airhogs777, "listening" is paying attention to what people say and acting accordingly, which Wikia's doing a REEEEAL good job of doing right about now. --Lisa URAQT 01:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

in b4 wikia loses 75% of their users. --Bobofango 00:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thats what everybody said the last time. >_> --MarioGalaxy2433g5 00:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * What last time? --Lancer1289 00:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's what everybody said before they knew the date of the mass exodus, MarioGalaxy. The time to go is the 3rd of November! --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Let's call it "Black Wednesday" --Airhogs777 01:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ahhhh I see. Ok then. Not bad. But what`s Monaco. I`m a new admin --Tdifan24 00:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Monaco is the skin that most wikis are using now. That will be replaced with this, with no choice from any of us in the matter. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

BOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --Drago99 00:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Looking forward to the theme designer tool, as I am sick of this blue/white/grey scheme we're all on if on the new look. I'm ready to move to the new look, like it or not. I think once the new Theme Designer tool is put into play, this will please many. --Devilmanozzy 00:47, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Pah. Forced fixed width won't be remedied by a fancy theme designer at this point, according to the new Terms of Use. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes I agree, but I want this done and over with already. This whole thing played out a few years ago when Monaco was the new thing on the block.
 * It's like taking medicine. I don't intend on drinking this slowly so I suffer so much. I moved on from this fight as anyone can read on my blog --Devilmanozzy 00:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's like taking medicine. I don't intend on drinking this slowly so I suffer so much. I moved on from this fight as anyone can read on my blog --Devilmanozzy 00:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, you quitter. :P
 * The new Terms of Use are really what're setting this apart from any sort of hubbub that Monaco created; our template wizard is going to throw a fit. Might as well find some way to stick it to them. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The new Terms of Use are really what're setting this apart from any sort of hubbub that Monaco created; our template wizard is going to throw a fit. Might as well find some way to stick it to them. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 00:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just want to know the CSS classes, I don't need your fancy-schmancy tool --Airhogs777 01:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm with Airhogs. The last 'tool' we got from Central, the RTE, was buggy and slow, and terrible for mobile users. I certainly wouldn't trust them to do well with the Theme Designer. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I could be wrong Airhogs777, but you may need that tool if you intend on getting the new background up. --Devilmanozzy 01:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then my wiki might end up blank. --Airhogs777 01:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

why is the sidebar on the right again? that is the single worst idea i have heard in months. seriously. pretty much every english language site ever uses a left handed sidebar, BECAUSE THEY WORK. Its a sidebar. if people have to look for it, you're wrong. its a tool, not something to showcase how cool and post-net2.0 (whatever that is) you are --Snugglemuffins 00:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

If the private beta is nearly over, I'm going to have to start repeating complaints about things I can't see that I should be able to see. As the new look is now out in public, is our vow of public silence no longer required? --Robin Patterson 00:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not until the skin is released or they say so, whichever comes first. --Airhogs777 01:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Robin: The public beta is in place now, so anything that is public there is fine to write about here (or anywhere). --Sannse 19:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

The new skin really confused me a lot, all this mixing and these new rules huummm ... Hopefully someone will read what we put on the blog in Spanish, and take into account those views. --Marcos moreno 00:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

If you are commenting on the translations of the "New Look" posts, then all the feedback is being passed back to us --Sannse 19:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Why, Wikia? Why does it have to be on every wiki?! It's just plain unfair. Not to mention unacceptable. --YoshiEgg 01:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I am going to say now, when the new skin is deployed, I will switch back to Monobook and intentionally, completely ignore development for the new skin. I refuse to work to support something so roundly and completely unwanted by the community at large, and everything I've seen of it shows that said support will not be trivial. --Dinoguy1000 01:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * And just to clarify, that's in the event I don't simply walk away from Wikia for good. --Dinoguy1000 01:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can't keep Monobook either. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can still choose it for your personal skin, from what I understand. If we can't even do that, then yes, I will turn my back on Wikia and never look back. --Dinoguy1000 01:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Monobook's gonna' be gone. --YoshiEgg 01:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yup, no more Monobook. That's why the New Look is called Wikia, not New Look.
 * See you on ShoutWiki! --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * See you on ShoutWiki! --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * For wikis as a whole. --Airhogs777 01:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Were any of the suggestions and comments about the new skin actually taken into consideration? Just asking cause it would have been a complete waste of everybody's time if you guys completely ignore everything that's been said. True, alot of it is negative feedback. However was any of it taken seriously? --Mugiwara Franky 01:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Simple: Only the positive feedback or "questions of what to do" were responded to and taken into consideration. Everything else?  Completely looked over.  Nothing can be done...now it's time to destroy the infoboxes, thanks Wikia! --TVthePunisher 01:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Answer: no
 * Staff's answer: "We're taking all comments into consideration" --Airhogs777 01:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Staff's answer: "We're taking all comments into consideration" --Airhogs777 01:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If by that, you mean "has any of the staff listened to us", then no. If you mean "has anybody listened to the good comments", then yes, we have. But the staff hasn't, I'm pretty sure. --YoshiEgg 01:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Why can't admins change common.js and common.css???? D: --Mojo22106 01:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The ad companies like consistency between their money farms. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Soo what?? --Mojo22106 01:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They should change slogan name to "Wikis for everyone, money for us." --Airhogs777 01:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well put Airhog. --HavocReaper48 01:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Mojo
 * So the ad companies don't want us to change it, and Wikia likes when the ad companies are happy. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * So the ad companies don't want us to change it, and Wikia likes when the ad companies are happy. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh got it. --Mojo22106 01:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

And if the staff is taking comments into consideration, then why aren't they responding to any? The answer: Because they're not. --YoshiEgg 01:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * In the staff's defense (Haaaa. Like they need defense.), it took them a while to comment on the negative comments way back when the New Look was first getting rolled out. Sannse will eventually post one or two responses and skirt around the fact that it's getting negative press, to be sure. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uch, why are you throwing common sense into the cesspit? --Airhogs777 01:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because if staff aren't going to do their JOBS, then somebody needs to. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

... Bah Humbug... Wonderwalrus 01:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC) --Wonderwalrus 01:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Bumping oppostion listing so it does not get lost:

and and finally  --HavocReaper48 01:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...on a side note, my avatar refuses to work and when i try to update it, nothing happens? --HavocReaper48 01:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Defeated Ryu, right? I remember that pledge. :) --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yup. I figure Ken's is bloodier but I'll stick with Ryu. Here's a bunch of other defeat portraits if anyone else is interested. --HavocReaper48 01:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

@ HavocReaper48, are you still having an issue with your avatar not updating? We noticed that earlier, but it should not be fixed. If it is not, please let us know at Special:contact. Thanks --Sarah Manley 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Once more, not an English major but.... "but it should not be fixed." Is that correct or did you mean: "but it should now be fixed?" --Bluesonic43 19:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

From the comments that are all over Community Central and the few that have gone answered I have come to the following conclusions. Bottom line, Wikia said “this is what we are doing, so while we asked for comments, we haven’t read any of them nor are we going to or make adjustments to the skin because it is perfect.” I really do invite any staff member to respond to this comment and prove me wrong. Because I really would like to be proven wrong and for the staff to actually respond to comments and make changes that apparently everyone wants. Don’t think that people want changes, then look around at all the wikis, the opinion of the community is that this is not good, the skin isn’t perfect, and changes need to be made. --Lancer1289 01:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Wikia opened the beta to just see what we didn’t like, then they locked that into place so we can’t remove it.
 * 2) Wikia never cared about our suggestions as they have yet to respond seriously to any comment left by any user apart from the “this is what is best for Wikia.”
 * 3) Wikia hasn’t read, or discontinued reading, any comments that we have left, as they have yet to respond to anything in recent days
 * 4) Wikia just doesn’t care about the community that drives it and listening to just people who respond positively.
 * 5) We have yet to see any percentages of feedback, which for something like this, should be posted so we can see what is really going on.
 * 6) Wikia doesn’t care about anything but positive suggestions
 * 7) Wikia had only A ONE WEEK PUBLIC BETA. Since we don’t know how many people were let into the private beta, and we also don’t know how long that lasted, it seems that Wikia is basically saying, “here’s what we are doing, whether you like it or not.”
 * 8) With just the one week Beta and a set implementation schedule, Wikia has absolutely no time to evaluate any and all comments about the new skin before implantation and make adjustments accordingly. I’m sorry one week doesn’t cut it.
 * 9) Wikia never read any negative, or stopped reading negative comments about the new “improved” skin. No changes have been made since they opened the beta and no changes will be made, since they only care about positive comments and not negative ones. I welcome someone from the Staff to prove me wrong and respond to any comments about the sidebar, content space, loss of personalization options, and the several other hundred things that have been brought up. So far nothing apart from a PR spiel saying “We are doing what is best”.


 * Well said, and be prepared for Airhogs to respond, I know he will (he's taken on the role as their sarcastic voice =D). --TVthePunisher 01:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * But he does it so well. --Devilmanozzy 01:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're right, but if they do respond, they'll probably give you the same bullshit answer that goes something like "We take all comments into consideration, blah blah blah." Lies. --YoshiEgg 01:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * But don't you like the Cake YoshiEgg ?! --Devilmanozzy 01:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Staff has responded to several comments. Looking back at "First look at the new wikia," I can see at least three. The Staff love your feedback, and have made many changes within a week. I mean, I've responded to messages on my talk pages within a week, how different could it be? And they're giving us a cheerful heads-up that they're about to make the change to a ghosttown website. I love cheerful heads-ups!
 * Isn't it great how they tell us that they know we're the most opinionated users, and then let us chat among ourselves without Staff supervision? It's like being a pre-teen girl at summercamp! Discussing the ugly counselors in a public area--a place we know they'd never check. --Airhogs777 01:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, we've got 9 theses by a guy with an L name here. Printscreen and tack them to Sannse's door.
 * Vive la Révolution! --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Vive la Révolution! --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @YoshiEgg: Exactly that is what I'm trying to get at. Not one response, not one, has actually said anything. They all say the same thing: "We don't want to respond to yoru comment becuase we are dodging questions like this because we don't care/want to care/don't want to read it/etc etc etc. We need answers and so far we have nothing. Again I'd like to be proven wrong about this becuase I said what I observed, nothing more or less. And if I get banned for it, then my points are all true that they don't care and just want to silence all critics. --Lancer1289 01:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Really nice religion jjoke, seriouly I like it. Although I'm a Roman Catholic, I can still recoganize a good joke when I see one. --Lancer1289 01:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's good, Lancer, because we need a martyr to put on t-shirts to fund the removal of our content and the finalization of contracts with our franchises. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That was a very low and dirty move.
 * None of the feedback went into improving Oasis layout. The feedback was only used to see what long time Editors didn't like so they could counter them by preventing Editors from changing it. --Bunai82 01:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * None of the feedback went into improving Oasis layout. The feedback was only used to see what long time Editors didn't like so they could counter them by preventing Editors from changing it. --Bunai82 01:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * At this point, it's nothing we didn't expect, Bunai. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Obama attacks the Tea Party, which is opposes his policies. We're oppose Wikia's policies, and what happens? We get ignored. --75.71.39.16 18:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well it seems there is a revolution about to take place. Wikia has a simple choice. Make the skin optional or lose many of its editors to other wiki sites. the change is not hard. You have the code for it. As i have said, there is nothing good that can come of this change. Something needs to be done. I cannot grasp that not a single wikia staff member has replied to even just one bit of criticism. --Godisme 01:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They have, just not with what we want to hear. Kind of like a fanatic reponse "IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE, REPENT SINNER AS THE NEW LOOK SHALL OVERCOME THEE AND BANISH YOUR EVIL SOUL TO THE DEPTHS OF OBLIVION!  By the way, we're talking all comments into consideration...be sure to use the feedback option =D"...and then they're on their way. --TVthePunisher 01:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's hilarious! --Airhogs777 01:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Airhogs, stop trolling --Godisme 03:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey, Godisme, Airhogs is trying to figure out how to get (hopefully) every community on Wikia to move to someplace less controlling. 'S not trolling if he's helping. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like Airhogs777's sarcasm. It totally rips into the intended target, leaving it a laughingstock. --75.71.39.16 18:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Look I know you guys have put a lot of work into this new look, and some of you probably think it's going to be great, but personally I believe this whole change to be unnessasary.

Nothing is wrong with the wikis as they are now, and even you pointed out we have all put a lot of work into them, but now your going to force this pointless change onto us all leaving us with so much more work to do!

And just look over all the comments, I'm obviously not alone in this opinion as most if not all of the other users following this blog are utterly against this change. --Prophet of Sanghelios 01:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I personally like the changes; however, not everyone does. Why remove the ability to use Monaco? --CoD addict 01:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good question. --Lancer1289 01:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Removing the ability to use Monaco (and Monobook!) will reduce the amount they'll spend on maintaining skins. This really is all about money, it's not all just ranting. (Well, at least it is from all that the staff tells us. They could at least have the dignity to say "Yeah, we're selling y'all out" and talk to us like we aren't all about 5 years old. :/) --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Your choice, Wikia. Either meet your loyal community's preferences or lose all of them. --YoshiEgg 01:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can't call us a "loyal community!" The saying goes:
 * "Behind every loyal community is a loyal government to back it up." --Airhogs777 01:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Behind every loyal community is a loyal government to back it up." --Airhogs777 01:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

to tell you the truth, i don't get it. --Wolverine99 01:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't get what about what? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing all of it. --Airhogs777 01:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * EVERYTHING
 * fine i didnt read it --Wolverine99 01:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

One thought I just had was that it seems that Wikia is comfortable with sacrificing content in favor of even more advertizing. I understand that Wikia must make money, and that is probably one, if not the primary way they do so. However when you start sacrificing the quality of your product, in this case the wikis, and the value of its content for profits, then you really need to reexamine your priorities. Again I understand that Wikia needs to make money, but when you start skimping on quality, then you start down a slippery slope that takes a while to recover from, if you even recover at all. --Lancer1289 01:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's why we've got the Facebook connect option. Linking to Facebook reduces the need of actual quality by vastly increasing the number of links to pages.
 * A user in the old thread mentioned that the next logical step is to influence the content itself. 'You must include the word 'sexy' at least twice per article' and all that jazz. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * A user in the old thread mentioned that the next logical step is to influence the content itself. 'You must include the word 'sexy' at least twice per article' and all that jazz. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Facebook connect is fine for a few edits, but if you're gonna try to be a major contributor, It's probably better to create an account.
 * Question: Can connect users be admin/bureaucrats? --Airhogs777 02:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Question: Can connect users be admin/bureaucrats? --Airhogs777 02:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia you guys are imbeciles for erasing all the hard work users have made to their wikis. The users on the Bakugan Wiki where I edit the most have spent HOURS customizing the look of our wiki! And you just come along and erase it all. You guys are the epitome of all evil!!!!! --Drago99 01:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Drago99  down with   the new skin!!!!!  01:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC) --Drago99 01:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

November 4, 2010 Content creators start leaving Wikia. Yes, you've got all the content we've created so far, and you can laugh at what suckers we are for that. JohnBeckett 01:47, September 29, 2010 (UTC) --JohnBeckett 01:47, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Like Smiley12 suggested, get a database dump, re-upload it under a different host like ShoutWiki, and request that Wikia delete your wiki. Easy-peasy. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sigh...... Nitpicker you do remember that Wikia can restore anything you delete right? --Devilmanozzy 01:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, yeah, I know. Point is in the act of moving, not whether the moving is any sort of success. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 01:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Make it harder for them. Have a few friends shorten the pages into summaries and in External links add a link to the new site (like the ghostbusters wiki is doing.) --Airhogs777 02:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Airhogs777, at this time Ghostbusters Wiki is making no plans on moving. I should know, I'm the admin in charge of the wiki. Read my recent blog which addresses the whole thing that happened earlier this September. My Blog. --Devilmanozzy 09:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Hey,whats up? --Arbiter10123 01:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

What !?!?! We only got till November 3 ?!?! --SSgtGriffin 01:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I like everything before November 3rd. November 3rd's event will be the biggest mistake ever made. The users will only be able to stand the new skin if they don't have to stand it. --Haru Mclean Namikaze 01:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I seriously JUST noticed that in the calender image in the top right of the blog, there is no Oct. 6 or 20 (assuming that's the Oct. calender). They got cut off. LOL. --HavocReaper48 01:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * LOL awesome. --Mojo22106 02:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

How on earth will this benefit any users? All this will do is erase the hard work we have put into our monaco skins and make users confused and uncomfortable with a new interface? What is positive about this skin? What good effects does it have? --Martin2 02:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * None, they just update it for "the good for wikia" (?) --HavocReaper48 02:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They really won't tell us. They ran 'tests' that said it was good, and that's about it. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * And to rip off Facebook apparently? <_> --HavocReaper48 02:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, they could do waaaay worse if they wanted to rip off Facebook. Facebook is included to solve that troublesome problem of 'free will' in the editors by luring in more viewers. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Facebook is all about free will! The Staff could never pull that off! --Airhogs777 02:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Humph. They're just 'the staff' at this point, the capital letters are more than they deserve for all of this tomfoolery. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * the staff. Ooh, it feels so demeaning and evil to say it like that. I like it. --Airhogs777 02:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Demeaning and evil might be a little much. They've proven that they aren't the omnipresent omnificent beings that Staff implies them to be, they're just a staff of people that decide on budget cuts and ad space. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...are you calling the "great and powerful" perfect deities known as 'the staff unworthy? Unholy? They are the ones who are paid for our site's well being and improvement. And who could do a better job on improvement than the current staff? The only people I can think of are:
 * *My mail lady
 * *My garbage man
 * *My preschool teacher
 * *An illiterate person
 * *the list goes on... --Airhogs777 02:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd rather we have devoted people like TurtleShroom and Lancer, and honest people like HavocReaper. People that totally wouldn't go behind our backs for a quick buck, or totally not tell us exactly the reason behind skin changes.
 * Or people that talk to us like we're people and not the money-generating livestock that we've been demoted to! --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or people that talk to us like we're people and not the money-generating livestock that we've been demoted to! --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why don't they put me in charge of the move to oasis? I'd work for free! --Isdrakthül 02:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That depends. What're you going to do, Isdrakthul? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * hopefully cancellation. --Airhogs777 02:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Completely eliminate oasis and change back to Monaco. Of course, they'll never actually give me the job despite my generous offer, so it's kind of moot. --Isdrakthül 02:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Here's a discussion straight from the shoutbox that someone told me to post here.

[1:36]  SIGN IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY

[1:36] ... It's a petition to keep the shoutbox.

[1:52]  I will never let them take away the shoutbox, it's to fun

[1:56]  I wholeheartedly agree, Metroid. Especially since we can't get our irc channel registered!

[1:57] ... However, the irc is absolutely not an acceptable replacement for the shoutbox. I know many people (including myself)

[1:58] ... who are unable to use the irc, and the shoutbox is a very important part of a tight-knit community.

[1:58] ... I mean, what else is there? Talk pages? Yeah, let's spam the RC like idiotic bots!

[1:59]  Copy and paste all that and post it on Sannse's blog. Need I type any further explanation here? Thank you. --Lisa URAQT 02:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * 248 signatures just makes it sad that they don't listen. I'm glad I signed, though.
 * 248 people can totally smash their way into Wikia's evil volcano lair, right? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 248 people can totally smash their way into Wikia's evil volcano lair, right? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * We'll need a sword big enough to cut through those Dragons they've got, there's plenty in the way as it is. Once they're silenced, maybe they'll open the entrance and listen. --TVthePunisher 02:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no way to get past their guardians. They've redesigned their Terms of Service to make them un-removable through CSS. --Airhogs777 02:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That "Need I type any further explanation here? Thank you." part is not from my Shout Box comment, but, you guys get the idea. --HavocReaper48 02:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @HavocReaper48 yeah, I added that at the end on a new line as something I was saying, but I forgot to put a break tag so it looks like it was part of your comment. I'll see if I can fix it. --Lisa URAQT 02:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

As usual Wikia decides what they want and we have no say. --Proxima Centauri 02:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Whoa nice name. :D --Mojo22106 02:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Quite honestly, I'm confused. We're supposed to like this new skin when it destroys wiki individuality and outright annihilates the layouts on long-standing wikis?

The new style makes the wiki hard to navigate for those of us who have relied on the Monaco sidebar. Even then, overly narrow pages serve only to squish content and leave terrible amounts of monotonic whitespace that can better be served with, I don't know, actual content? For any wiki which relies on on the infobox model, you're forcing a major, unnecessary revision. And why are there article comments? One look at even a single page on the Twilight wiki shows it full of distracting natter and irrelevant information, which detracts from any serious wiki's attempt to report information.

When the text of an article only takes up a third of the available space on my screen? When I see so much whitespace that I ache to fill it up with information but can't? When you only have a week of public beta before moving ahead because you know that you're not going to listen to any complaints? I know that wikia is doing something that will, having already alienated many of its major editors, finally drive them out. Very little of the major wikis, save for those you yourselves edit, can last such a change.

Thank you, wikia. It's been fun. I'll give you that much. --Lanate 02:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Can I have a wiki or two removed from Wikia before this happens? --Master Conjurer 02:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, can you spare some deletions for me too? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Guys how do you import Wiki data to another host? --XIII-DARKNESS 02:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * It'll be a quite bit of work, that's for sure. I'm not up on CSS stuff, but I'm pretty sure that Porter21 could tell you, if he were here. :/ --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well i guess i'll wait --XIII-DARKNESS 02:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You download the data dump, which I think is in the Special:Statistics, or something like that. Then, you upload it to the other host. (How to upload it, I have no idea.) You should also ask the staff to delete your wiki. --Airhogs777 02:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, it should just be a means of copy-pasting everything, starting with essential templates and CSS options. Don't quote me on it.
 * He beat me by 9 seconds. Magic fingers, I guess. :P --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * He beat me by 9 seconds. Magic fingers, I guess. :P --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Do what airhogs said. I recomment ShoutWiki
 * 1. Database Dump.
 * 2. Upload to other wikihost (email them to do it) --Smiley12 02:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2. Upload to other wikihost (email them to do it) --Smiley12 02:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks... now i just gotta figure out how to upload it --XIII-DARKNESS 02:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good on ya for standing up against this. :) --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is what I' doing to my wikis... It's also gonna create a lot of wars between your wiki and the new wiki that wikia will create on your topic. --Smiley12 02:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Smiley, that's only if the new users can stand the New Look skin long enough to 'challenge' the original wiki.
 * Friendly competition between one wiki that looks like a wiki and one that looks like a wiki squashed to play to the fancies of ad companies and legal tyranny can only be good for one of them. ;) --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Friendly competition between one wiki that looks like a wiki and one that looks like a wiki squashed to play to the fancies of ad companies and legal tyranny can only be good for one of them. ;) --Nitpicker of the Wastes 02:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Or if the new users keep the inforation up to date like the frequent users do. --AlienGamer 02:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Nitpicker
 * Lol, so true :D --Smiley12 02:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, so true :D --Smiley12 02:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * To import Wiki data onto another MediaWiki host, you first need to download the database, which is ready for download at Special:Statistics, you then need to use the "Import" tool on the 2nd MediaWiki project and this way you will have all the revision history with all of your data. --ZamorakO o 03:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Dear staff, we've got a problem.

You see, I know you want people to like your new look, you want to make it mandatory so that all-too-common "user apathy" kicks in and we either move on or find something or just deal with it. However blocking the option to edit common.css has a LOAD of problems.

1) Say what you want about the theme creator, but that's a simplistic tool for the people starting out, it does NOT provide in-depth editing features like you can only do in common.css. Right now the only place where I can set up a custom template that replicates features like twitter, google calandar, or any of the other features you plan to remove? Is in common.css. If you're not going to make them available there, make those editing options available in the skin's .css.

2) no really, have you thought this out? I know this is a continuation of 1, but the only way to edit a template's background is also in common.css. Unless your little theme designer can change the background image for the wiki's templates (and individual templates), then you're going to have a glaring problem in any fancy-designed wiki... Which the entire point of a fancy little wiki is to be able to customize everything.

3) this will result in more problems down the line. As the skin ages and becomes dated (which can happen in any time from 6 months to 2 years), it will be a turn off if new users can see that there's no good way to update the skin on their own. These days monaco does look dated, but the things that people did to make the skin was what made me choose this wikifarm in the first place.

4) You're cutting out a main feature. Let's look at the wikifarms shall we? pbworks is aimed towards corporate types, but they don't have ads. Wetpaint doesn't have editable css, but they allow for iframes. Wikispaces allows you to have no ads, add your own features, and customize the css, but the design is terrible and you have to pay to change it. Wikidot looks like it has promise, so I don't know the full list of drawbacks/features. And lastly, google site has many great features, but they disallow you from using css to modify their themes.

See where this is going? The reason I chose this site is BECAUSE of the flexibility of what I can do here. If this wasn't an option I'd choose any of the other sites. The big thing that counters your lack of open-source widgets, prevalent and annoying ads, and spotty customer service, is the fact that we can change our wiki into what we want it to be and that we have a community to learn how to do it.

If you block us from modifying common.css then you've taken away a chunk of our flexibility, and you won't have much of a community any more. --Basilmemories 02:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

You will still be able to add CSS to style templates and so on. Just add the code to Mediawiki.wiki.css (your personal css is also available as username/wikia.css ).

Common.css was breaking a lot of wikis (because of skin specific code in there), so we've moved some to the core code, and anything else useful can be moved to the new page. The same functionality is in place --Sannse 19:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Warning: There is no skin "wikia". Remember that custom .css and .js pages use a lowercase title, e.g. User:Foo/monaco.css as opposed to User:Foo/Monaco.css.
 * So Special:MyPage/oasis.css stopped getting called about seven-eight hours ago and yet I'm told by the database that it doesn't exist?
 * Also, I would have sworn it was MediaWiki:Wikia.css unless that changed overnight too. --Bluesonic43 19:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I would have sworn it was MediaWiki:Wikia.css unless that changed overnight too. --Bluesonic43 19:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I would have sworn it was MediaWiki:Wikia.css unless that changed overnight too. --Bluesonic43 19:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

huh? --Smiley4913 02:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * HUH??? --Smiley12 02:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I am happy to say that Bleach wiki is looking into the possibility of moving its content to a wikia alternative. No decision has been made but we are researching it. --Godisme 03:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you find a good way to do so, please let me know. --Isdrakthül 03:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your not the only one --XIII-DARKNESS 03:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ShoutWiki is the group favourite alternative, and Airhogs is going about figuring out the details.
 * That's two so far, Wikia. How many more need to go before we get some credit? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's two so far, Wikia. How many more need to go before we get some credit? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey it looks like Darthipedia has already moved to ShoutWiki, and Wikisimpsons will likely be following.
 * Wikia is going to lose its big wikis --Smiley12 03:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikia is going to lose its big wikis --Smiley12 03:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please let me know as well. I've been looking around, but I haven't found anything that quite suits my needs yet. --Basilmemories 03:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Reborn Wikia is considering it, the Darker than Black wikia has decided on it, so i count 6 --AlienGamer 03:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * By November the count will be higher --XIII-DARKNESS 03:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you smell the progress, people?
 * Even if this accomplishes nothing else, at least we won't need to deal with Wikia's errant design choices for any longer. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even if this accomplishes nothing else, at least we won't need to deal with Wikia's errant design choices for any longer. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Anti-Wikia movement has begun in full. --XIII-DARKNESS 03:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank goodnesss. You guys won't loose any of that great content and that's a great idea; I will talk to the Bleach and Naruto Fanon/Fanfiction wikis about possibly doing the same. No need to get sidetracked by this disastrous looking change. --Ten Tailed Fox 03:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If all this moves do happen, then Wikia will have brought it upon themselves by paying deaf ears to our complaints and comments. Just today there have been more than 400 comments over this ridiculousness and Wikia remains silent. They have what they wanted. They will have no wikis to advertise in their huge sidebar. --Lia Schiffer 03:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I almost feel sorry for wikia with all the major wikis leaving. But to be honest, I've lost complete respect for the staff. --Smiley12 03:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Now I really want to see how the staff can answer questions with this going on. They won't be able to say 'community' when the community doesn't want to be part of Wikia. :D --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You people do know that Wikia will keep the wikis on Wikia even if the userbase leaves? They will then try to find a new set of people to edit it in there place. Wikia seems to find editors easily replaceable. --ZamorakO o 03:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yep, that's what was in ShoutWikis reply after I emailed them yesterday. --Smiley12 03:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * But if they can't replace them there's an upside for me. My wikis are all too small to move, and with no major wikis left, I'll be more popular by default. Also, a lot of my best friends are leaving. Just kidding. --Airhogs777 03:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @ZamorakO
 * Why would a new editor base show up with a skin like this? :P
 * There're reasons that we dislike the new skin, chief among them being the lack of actual articles. Wikia can do whatever it wants; the community and the good-looking articles will be long gone. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * There're reasons that we dislike the new skin, chief among them being the lack of actual articles. Wikia can do whatever it wants; the community and the good-looking articles will be long gone. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * There're reasons that we dislike the new skin, chief among them being the lack of actual articles. Wikia can do whatever it wants; the community and the good-looking articles will be long gone. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Nitpicker of the Wastes
 * It's not the skin that's the worst part, it's the lack of ability to change it to what the community wants. Some users who have never edited on Wikia, and known how they used to allow free will on site design might like it. --ZamorakO o 03:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not the skin that's the worst part, it's the lack of ability to change it to what the community wants. Some users who have never edited on Wikia, and known how they used to allow free will on site design might like it. --ZamorakO o 03:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm including the new Terms of Use as a 'feature' of the new skin, actually. Terms of Use have no say on the layout of our wikis as of yet.
 * New users will see that, yeah, and if they see the original wikis after they've moved, they'll wonder why they've got so much crap.
 * But that all comes down to a lot of hypothetical thoughts. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:50, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * But that all comes down to a lot of hypothetical thoughts. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:50, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * But that all comes down to a lot of hypothetical thoughts. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:50, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Nitpicker of the Wastes
 * Well.... They kind of already added it to the Terms of use
 * And I do have to agree with you on that. --ZamorakO o 03:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I do have to agree with you on that. --ZamorakO o 03:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I do have to agree with you on that. --ZamorakO o 03:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They aren't enforcing it, at the very least.
 * I like not having a fixed width, too. That'll be an arguement for a later newsblog, though. :P --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like not having a fixed width, too. That'll be an arguement for a later newsblog, though. :P --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They're probably just setting up their bot to go pillage the Wikia community. --ZamorakO o 04:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * In any event, any wikis that leave should stay out. Even if the ToU edits are rolled back and Monaco and Monobook are kept now, that doesn't mean they won't try something stupid down the road. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 04:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, they should come back. That would induce Wikia to listen to its users. --75.71.39.16 18:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Big wiki's and big wiki groups, like anime --XIII-DARKNESS 03:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * And I think the Starwars related wikis are moving --Smiley12 03:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Vault Wiki really wants to leave as well, but we're having problems with it. Employment issues and stuff. :( --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Anyone knows what Yu-gi-oh Wikia thinks of this? It's the biggest Anime wiki out there, if they moved out it would be chaos. --Lia Schiffer 03:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If anyone has a large wiki and is interesting in moving, contact me and we can consider hosting two large wikis together (mine and yours) to keep costs down.
 * If you don't have a large wiki and wish to move, I suggest you investigate the options others are throwing around. I can provide suggestions if desired. --Surgo 03:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you don't have a large wiki and wish to move, I suggest you investigate the options others are throwing around. I can provide suggestions if desired. --Surgo 03:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Define 'large', Surgo? --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Surgo, I can't really speak for Zeldapedia until I ask people and I'm not sure if we meet the 'large' criteria, but we might be interested if you consider us large. --Isdrakthül 03:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Large is about as big as my wiki (the Dungeons and Dragons Wiki) is (though truly large is probably larger), and has about the same number of active users. Though really it's the user-base that has more bias towards how "large" a wiki is than sheer article count. --Surgo 04:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

This is Bullshit. Wikia gave you those wiki's and you're just giving them a big middle finger by saying "fuck you, it's fine the way it is". I may not like this new look either, but whatever will attract new members is fine with me. Besides if it's a failure they can always go back. --Coronaholic 03:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * To each there own --XIII-DARKNESS 03:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * What I see is a new skin that will attract new editors and drive away experienced editors, we DON'T want premature editors thinking their ready to help out but only causing trouble trying to help. --Smiley12 03:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Corona, a good wiki shouldn't need a skin change to attract new editors. If the content is good, it'll speak for itself. But, when the content is jammed to the left and cluttered with some seriously useless features (image slideshow, anyone?), people tend to want their articles back. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 03:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wkia gave us those Wikis? Who do u think gives them the revenue? Are you really naive enough to believe that they give it out of good will. Each visit you make to a wikia increases their revenue. --AlienGamer 03:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * large (adjective)
 * #great in comparison to
 * see GREAT, BIG, HUMONGOUS, GIGANTIC.
 * UPDATE: Whoops, wrong reply button. --Airhogs777 03:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: Whoops, wrong reply button. --Airhogs777 03:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have experienced many site changes and every time, there are divided opinions. You could say there is usually a balance between those who oppose and those who support the change. This is not the case. Run through the 500+ comments on this blog, and the thousands of other comments on the other newsfeeds about this change. There is no divided opinion, there is no balance at all, there is a general dislike for this change. The VAST majority of the users are STRONGLY opposing it. That alone should tell Wikia that something's definitely WRONG with this. But they prefer to play deaf and go Sakura Kinomoto "Everything's gonna be alright ;D". And this attitude should tell you and every user just how little they care about the contributors that have built this Community all through the years. --Lia Schiffer 03:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

@Lia, even though I haven't seen any discussion about this on the yu gi oh wiki, I've seen as a beta tester what the wiki looks like with the new skin - HORRIBLE. --Smiley12 03:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Anything looks horrible with that idiotic sidebar, but it would be interesting to see what Wikia would think if their major Anime Wiki decided to leave them. Many Anime wikis are in talks to decide if moving is a good idea, I've heard of the Reborn Wiki, Darker than Black Wiki, and we, at the Bleach Wiki are looking for options in case there's no other option left, not to mention the non-Anime wikis. Haven't heard of anyone from One Piece wiki, Yu-gi-oh Wiki or Narutopedia, those three are big wikis too. This is really crazy. Will Wikia realize that this is just not going anywhere and all they'll achieve is kick out all their users and contributors? Probably not. --Lia Schiffer 03:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

WOOT 500th comment --Smiley12 03:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * But seriously though, Wikia staff needs to ope their eyes and realise that big wikis are leaving. There will be no one left to look at their huge ads --Smiley12 03:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * WOOT 501st complain :P --AlienGamer 03:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * lol, so true --Smiley12 03:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * But didn't you read the Green Wiki's blog post? They're starting a "Sister project" called the "Community central" and leaving this one to the ads. --Airhogs777 11:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

The change wouldn't be so bad if they did not make this change to the Terms of Use. --ZamorakO o 03:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Hi all. Just a quick note to say we have read through of all the comments so far. It's getting late here in San Francisco now, so we will look through them again tomorrow and start replying then. --Sannse 04:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok. We await your justifications. --ZamorakO o 04:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * About time. :/
 * Like I said below, I can't wait to see the replies. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 04:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like I said below, I can't wait to see the replies. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 04:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * This should ether be interesting, OR the FINAL straw, Wikia Staff --XIII-DARKNESS 04:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll sve you the trouble of going through 500+ comments..General View:
 * *Hate the Skin
 * *The Content Space is bull
 * *Do you really expect us to take this much abuse
 * *An alternative to Wikia has been found on ShoutWiki, which a few wikia's have already moved into, and a few more planning on it, expect the number to rise, come November
 * ehh..well thats all i can remember --AlienGamer 04:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * ehh..well thats all i can remember --AlienGamer 04:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * ehh..well thats all i can remember --AlienGamer 04:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's getting late? It's only 9:16! Grab a cup of coffee and start replying, dammit! :P --Samsonius 04:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, a gal needs her beauty sleep! --Sannse 19:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I know the fixed-width centre content column format is a popular trend in web design lately (capitalizing on the success of Facebook and its use of the design), but for most types of content it is a very poor design. It works for microblog-type content (such as the Facebook wall), and would even be effective for the main page of a wiki, but it's absolutely the wrong design for content pages.

Furthermore, changes to the menu are seriously detrimental to usability, to the actual function of a wiki as a resource for information. It seems basically like the site is being transformed from a wiki host to a social networking/microblogging site. This is essentially the purpose of this new skin. --Asaemon 04:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree... Main page, have at the info... if people that visit the site are overwhelmed, they at least have an out by not seeing the crazy stuff on the content pages. This is how the sites were meant to be seen as well as created. --M1shawhan 04:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. [...] It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution

Absurdopedia wiki will never accept such Terms of Use. You've just made a step over the line of what we can tolerate. --Edward Chernenko 04:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You already have by using the Wikia website. --ZamorakO o 04:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I assure you, this usage won't last long. --Edward Chernenko 04:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I must agree, the Wikia has gone too far.
 * This is so typical, to gain users by giving them freedom of choice, then gather the public, and finally take the freedom away. For what cost? To make all people see some default layouts.
 * It is a black day for Wikia users. --RWHÔ 07:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is a black day for Wikia users. --RWHÔ 07:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is a black day for Wikia users. --RWHÔ 07:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

The new layout is shite. No offence, but I miss changing the skin colour, and customising other crap. --600613 04:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, it looks good, but it is terrible to navigate around........I guess it's just something to get used to, even though I kinda like the old wiki skin better. --Shrev64 04:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * thats probably the nicest comment ive seen today! --Thebrains222 08:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

No, don't you understand that hardly anyone wants this new look, you are completely ignoring what the main percent of users want from Wikia. Oh well --Blackout0189 05:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wow, the custom site logo space is small. It's gonna be hard to make anything unique fit in that strip. --Moonraker-6 05:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

R.I.P Monobook &amp; Monaco. You will be missed. --Juze 05:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but it's annoying now. You should for example make a poll, which skin community wants. I'm sure more than 40–50% will tick Monaco. Here, where community is main propeller, ignoring it is really bad idea.

Blocking common.css – that's nonsense. It's not used only to modify layout – for example changing sysops nicks' colors. Really it's grave crime or assasination on Oasis? --Misiek95 05:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I for one can always set big red redirect link on each and every page of my little wiki if I'm gonna move. I better invest my time in that than in trying to cope with new changes and waiting for the similar future 'updates'. My wiki is not that important, so it's easy for me to move, and that's great because I've never seen the official staff so indifferent to people voices... :-\ --Ngng 05:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Arg!!! I like monaco and monobook, but I hate wikia's new style... --Super Mario X 06:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Just to double-check, these changes affect all wikis in all languages, right? It's not just English wikis? Wikis that have duplicates in other languages will have to make the same changes in each language to get their wikis to fit the new layout. --RRabbit42 06:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They'll torture the english wikis first and then translate the other language wikis after --Thebrains222 08:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

They will be in all languages, although the timing may be slightly different depending on translations --Sannse 19:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Did you miss the word "torture" there? --Solar Dragon 19:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia! Darthipedia has already moved to ShoutWiki. What does that say? They are quite a big wiki and they are already gone. --Solar Dragon 06:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think ShoutWiki is better than Wikia because I don't like Wikia's skins are so boring. Monobook is the best skin ever.
 * Sorry =( --Super Mario X 06:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry =( --Super Mario X 06:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * It shows that people can't handle change. How Old is ShoutWiki anyways? They give no history for they project. I wouldn't jump ship so fast if I was you. --Devilmanozzy 09:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * To be fair, at this point, its the lesser of two evils --AlienGamer 09:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * "To be fair, at this point, its the lesser of two evils" ...That isn't very good answer if you think about all the work it takes to move all the articles, the loss of wikia promoting your wiki on google/bing, and then there are all the visitors that will be lost due to the change. Any move better be worth it. Right now ShoutWiki is the new kid in town, and they want your content. But when they get big, whats to stop them from doing what wikia is doing? Are you that dedicated? Maybe if so, buy a web space and build your own wiki. --Devilmanozzy 10:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd rather not have my 2000+ articles butchered thank you very much.
 * Moving Wikia is still less work than organizing more than 2000 articles, fixing infoboxes and tables. That effort be put into moving is way more worth it. Remember, this is the second time they changed format --AlienGamer 10:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Moving Wikia is still less work than organizing more than 2000 articles, fixing infoboxes and tables. That effort be put into moving is way more worth it. Remember, this is the second time they changed format --AlienGamer 10:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm aware of that AlienGamer. But you shouldn't put up a tent somewhere else til you know the ground your tent will be placed. Also, me thinks there may be bears over there too! --Devilmanozzy 10:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I really dont mind most things, but the content space is something which i cant stand. Basically, Wikia is giving more space to advertising other Wikia's and showing who uploaded images, than the thing that makes the wikia run, the content.
 * Sarah in her latest page said, "It simply looks better" I wonder how much they paid her to say that. --AlienGamer 10:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sarah in her latest page said, "It simply looks better" I wonder how much they paid her to say that. --AlienGamer 10:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * AlienGamer, This is all old hat now. No one likes the width and the ads. But what holds me back is plain logic, which is that every free wiki providing site will sooner or later look similar to wikia after it becomes big enough. If you care about the content so much, buy a webspace and build a wiki there. It ain't that hard, heck I am currently building Shmups Wiki. That means actually getting the files uploaded and edited too. No only editing on the wiki. Remember the benefits Wikia offers such as spambot protection. --Devilmanozzy 11:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dude, no offense meant, but what makes you think that Wikia won't go further than this in a years time..hell, its just been two years since their last change. Same logic applies here as well, just that we have more time if anything with the other Wikis --AlienGamer 11:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If I ever plan to move any wiki, it will be to a website made by me. Free Wiki providers are the same as free web site providers (Tripod, Angelfire, Geocities) and they all started adding ads and popups and stuff. I don't know how much background you have on past events on the web (90's), but this is the same story with "wiki". FREE FREE FREE! ....with ads. --Devilmanozzy 11:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * AlienGamer please read Tripod.com Wikipedia. We're repeating history here. --Devilmanozzy 11:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If thats what it takes, so be it --AlienGamer 11:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * To each his own i guess. The larger the wikia, the more its affected, and the higher the chance of a move.
 * Small Wikia's can adjust after some time, but larger ones cant --AlienGamer 11:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Small Wikia's can adjust after some time, but larger ones cant --AlienGamer 11:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you calling ads a bad thing? The staff seem to love them, and they're such good role-models for us. --Airhogs777 11:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Airhogs
 * Nice sarcasm (you guys wouldn't believe the ads I've been seeing on Wika)
 * *shivers* --Shade Link 12:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * *shivers* --Shade Link 12:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * *shivers* --Shade Link 12:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Comment 538 --Happy65 06:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wow! Wikia has listened to its userbase! You noticed many admins didn't like the new features much, so you've forbidden us to turn any of them off! That'll show all those defeatists who claimed Wikia isn't listening to us! --M.mendel 06:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, could you repeat that? The staff's deafness seems to be contagious. Soon, I might stop posti— --Airhogs777 11:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

While this blog post explicitly lists a few practical examples, I do not think the the new TOS is written in a clear way. Changing the fixed-width nature, to most users/administrators, would NOT intuitively constitute block/remove/obstruct of user interface and functionality.

And since the practical examples listed above do not align with my intuitive interpretation of the ToU, I would like to request explicit clarification regarding whether it is ok to move the right rail to the left side (without otherwise altering the width). --Afker 07:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Moving the rail from right to left should be fine by my understanding. After all, the rail will still be there. If Wikia disagree, then they need to clarify the terms --Yyp 10:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I have to say, one of my favorite things about Wikia, up to this point, has been the degree of autonomy each wiki is given. This "update" represents a severe blow to that autonomy, and I can't begin to express how disheartened this makes me. This update is a step in the wrong direction, and I seriously hope the good people at Wikia will reconsider. --SpartHawg948 07:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Have Frank-west describe how "disheartened" you are, he loves giving the staff a piece of his mind. I think. Or maybe I don't remember. I was always bad with names. --Airhogs777 11:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd really rather give the staff a kick to the face, because that's what they're doing to us with this stupid skin. Like I said before, this is just stupidly awful. If wikia knew how to listen to the comments they would've stopped this. Apparently wikia is just slower than a retarded turtle, because they just say "HUR DURR THIS NEW SKIN BETTAR SO THERE". --Frank-West 14:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Would a template effectively forms a banner at the top of the content area be against the Term of Use? It's effect is extremely similar to "add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page". --Afker 07:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

If it's fully in the content area, then no. But I wouldn't advise it, it sounds as though you should just be just reproducing all the problems of massive sitenotices --Sannse 19:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, this does not seem like a good course of action. --Chimpso 07:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)



Goodbye Monaco... :( --Smiley12 08:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * High time to find alternative wikis. :"(
 * Please wikia stuff. This place used to be good and friendly. --Ronga 08:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * nice! --Thebrains222 08:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Love it Smiley12! --Devilmanozzy 10:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * And Monobook too, Smiley.
 * Might as well change it to just R.I.P. Wikia. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 11:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Might as well change it to just R.I.P. Wikia. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 11:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, no, no. "Gone but forgotten by parents with Alzheimer's" --Airhogs777 12:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Haha, good one Smiley12 xD --ToShootToKill 15:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

This is a really bad idea. Don't ban common.css. I strongly dislike it. Why don't let users choose? Please stop or we have to find alternative wikis. --Ronga 08:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, Wikia does not care whether we move out or not. As we are not allowed to redirect wikis to another url, the page views will still stay at the same level due to those who only read the wiki and don't know that the community has decided to move. Wikia only cares for money, which comes via advertisements, thus via page views. --Xd1358 12:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

common.css won't be gone, although the new look will use Medaiwiki:wikia.css instead The change is that wikia.css should not be used to remove features or change the interface for other users. You can still use your personal CSS pages to make any changes you want --Sannse 19:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Holy Crap! So many Wikia communities have already moved out...Well then, guess i better get started too... --AlienGamer 08:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why? Think how devastated the staff will be if you move out! They surely care! Their apathy is obviously just for good PR. --Airhogs777 12:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Airhogs, teach me to be as sarcastic as you are. --75.71.39.16 16:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

The new skin is rubbish, It will only drive users out of Wikia... Using such a "narrow" screen layout obstruct readers. --KMB-ATE1 08:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

The so-called "New look" is just plain shite - everybody knows that. The only reason you try to push it is money. "We make n00b friendly skin that'll gives us more users!" - that;s the way you think. And by doing that you are shitting on ppl that helped make wikia what it is today - myself included. You want to frak with the community for some virtual dollars - please try. As a gamer I can live without wikia - there still site like gamefaqs so go to hell :P I really won't die just because i want be using MediaWiki lol. --87.105.234.31 09:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * EDIT:
 * And of course narrow view is great for MORE ADDS :P
 * It's a shite and pain to use but we'll have more adds so FRAK y'all!!1!
 * sincerely NOT yours
 * mugatron --87.105.234.31 10:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * sincerely NOT yours
 * mugatron --87.105.234.31 10:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * mugatron --87.105.234.31 10:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * TOP-SECRET STAFF INFO: Soon, they plan to replace the content with ads. --Airhogs777 12:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That can be the only possible answer to this, Airhogs. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 12:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

A dark day indeed. It seems that the uncompromising intransigence continues and it has been decided to double down, full steam ahead, making it a terms of service violation to deviate in any meaningful way from the page layout they've decided to proscribe.

This next example might seem overwrought, but I really hope you think about it, because I couldn't be more serious. The difference between a planned economy and a market economy is in where the decisions get made. Whether most decisions get made by a couple of people and then apply to everyone, or whether decisions get made by the people most directly affected by the outcome of the decision.

Wikia's a big place, with a huge variety of content on the individual wikis. Making us all look alike may sound great in principle, but in practice means shoehorning content for many of us into inappropriate layouts. Different wikis have different audiences.

Planned economies exist in very few countries, Cuba, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, and Burma. There's a reason why.

You're breaking faith with your contributors, please help us. --Tlosk 09:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, when you allow competition, (in this case it is on service, not on price), things will improve for the consumer. There was very little innovation in the USSR (planned economy), but there was a great deal of innovation in the USA (market economy). Americans are richer than Russians. I wonder why. --75.71.39.16 16:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I try to go with the flow, but to be honest, the fixed width sounds like a total train wreck. 660 pixels for article content??? That's about one third of a typical HD monitor's width. I can deal with a shuffled-around layout, but what's the point of having articles when they only fill a sliver of the screen? (I know, I know - ads.)

I'd like to think that Wikia has more respect for its users than YouTube, so I'll wait until we get a reply tomorrow before I take any action. But if we don't get a reasonable response, I'm also going to be in favor of ditching Wikia. Our community as been plugging away for months trying to get our wiki shaped up, and unless Wikia plans to pay us some of that ad revenue, I see no reason why we should work for free to make their broken skin work. --Nonoitall 10:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * YES! REVOLUTION! FREEDOM! AAH! IS MY CAPS LOCK ON? --Airhogs777 12:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Is there a copy in italian? If not it isn't a problem.

Thanks --Axel 8 11:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for providing a timeline for all this, but seriously, you've got to be kidding me? Yes? You are rushing this and all you are succeeding in doing is making everyone angry with you (or rather even angrier). Cop yourselves on would ya. This is not ready for implementing yet. We all know that, so how can you not? Why such a rush?

The closed beta testing is drawing to a close? Thanks for telling us (those very beta testers) that! It will be good to see what you have got to say to all that feedback. Hopefully it will be more extensive and less evasive/cryptic than before. It better be if you want to get people to go along with this.

"We know you’ve put a lot of work into making your wikis look great in Monaco..."

Yes, but you're still going to kick us in the teeth regardless and force us to start from scratch. Way to endear yourselves to us and convince us to accept the new look. I do not think that you should be setting such a close deadline when we have not even gotten to try out the theme designer yet. It is good to have faith in yourselves that you made a brilliant tool blah blah blah, but what if it is bugged as hell/isn't as useable as you thought and needs a lot of work to improve/fix. Releasing at such a late stage and leaving so little time to resolve any issues that come with it does not seem very smart. I know you have said that you will continue to develop and refine the skin after the switch, but why not have it as ready as possible before switching off the old look? It should be as finished as possible. Why such a rush?

Staff have stated that they are looking at putting the infoboxes and other content into the (exceedingly fat) right sidebar. I would not want this new look change to be made until that idea is ready.

You need to clarify your terms of use. Can admins move things for all users around so long as they are still actually there? Like say move the right sidebar to the left, or push the wikia hub navigation bar right up against the top of the page? Etc etc.

We at Bleach Wiki are evaluating our options to move to another host if you do not put this right. I had been against this idea, but I am moving more and more in favour of it after this. And I see that many other wikis are considering this too, indeed some have already moved? Wow, just wow Wikia. Surely you realize that this is an ongoing disaster right now...

You have a lot of questions to answer and I am looking forward to your explanations, but I am no longer hopeful over all this. --Yyp 11:50, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You, me and everyone here. --AlienGamer 11:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * totally agree --Ashclaw 12:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's right. --75.71.39.16 17:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

WHY!!!! we want Monaco.

Also, this new skin is a piece of crap that lets you greedy pigs from Wikia fit more crap ads on wikias. Also what's the point of having wikis if the article with is 650 px???? --Ashclaw 11:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * To attract users to click the ads. --Airhogs777 12:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

DITCH THE DAMN SKIN YOU FAT PIGS --Ashclaw 11:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're not talking to me, are you? I'm so hurt! --Airhogs777 12:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

gees, this new looks stuff's gone mad. If your settings are set to monaco, then all the wikis look mad. If you enable new-look in the preferences, then all the wikis except those on the new look still look bad. SORT THIS OUT WIKIA! --Heatedpete 11:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

We had some caching issues this morning that meant that some of the main CSS wasn't being loaded. Sorry about that! All is working again now --Sannse 19:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

You just lost the most of Wikia's fans. --Mimo&amp;maxus 11:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * And? They can always buy new ones. --Airhogs777 12:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

look, there are at least 500 people against this idea and i bet theres more so WHY DONT YOU LISTEN. You wanna lose users??? huh??? fine use the crap skin and murder monaco. BUT YOU WIIL LOSE USERS --Ashclaw 12:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not 'will lose', 'have lost'. And the number that leave can only go up if they keep posting the same sanitized PR replies that they did in the old newsblog. :/ --Nitpicker of the Wastes 12:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dear Nitpicker of the Wastes,
 * Us Wikia staffmembers have seen no drop in popularity. This is believed to be due to a lot of use while switching. We also have no idea what you are talking about by "sanitized PR," as the new skin will be great for attracting new users and easier for the old ones. What, John? Oh, what I meant to say was, we also have no idea what you are talking about by "sanitized PR," as I simply talk this way. --Airhogs777 12:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Us Wikia staffmembers have seen no drop in popularity. This is believed to be due to a lot of use while switching. We also have no idea what you are talking about by "sanitized PR," as the new skin will be great for attracting new users and easier for the old ones. What, John? Oh, what I meant to say was, we also have no idea what you are talking about by "sanitized PR," as I simply talk this way. --Airhogs777 12:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

WHY?????? WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS!!!???? --Ashclaw 12:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Money. I don't get it either. --Airhogs777 12:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

In the new version of Monaco, the content area will move up, replacing the top area that had the banner ad. For logged-in users, article pages will have a 300x250px ad unit, floated to the right. Pictures and infoboxes that are floated to the right will automatically move below the ad. The ad units will be added automatically, and won't appear in the editable wiki code. --Ashclaw 12:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

talk to us, tell us something Sannse or what your name is.If you dare come out and explain this bullshit to everyone. Do it. --Mimo&amp;maxus 12:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd be very surprised if you could make them come out of their bubble and explain anything. --Nitpicker of the Wastes 12:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * pop. --Airhogs777 12:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Communities leaving by the truck load before implimentation, I'd love to see the remains of Wikia at around December/January --AlienGamer 12:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

but, it may be a nice skin. Let's see first and then we'll talk about that.

sorry for my English. --Mimo&amp;maxus 12:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

You can see the new skin now on the beta wikis. There is more about this here --Sannse 19:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is not a nice skin though. It is horrible. --Solar Dragon 19:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Hello, boys and girls, this is your old pal Stinky Wizzleteats. This is a song about a whale-no! This is a song about being happy. That's right! It's the Happy Happy Joy Joy song!

Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy joy

I don't think you're happy enough. That's right! I'll teach you to be happy. I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs. Now boys and girls lets try this again...

Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy joy

If'n you ain' the graddaddy of all liars. The little critters of nature they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny! Like a fly marrying a bumblebee. I told you I'd shoot! But you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME?

Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy Happy happy joy joy joy

Happy happy happy happy Happy happy happy happy Happy happy joy joy joy --Devilmanozzy 12:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, wrong thread. --Devilmanozzy 12:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You sure? Looks more like you're the first confirmed fatality from the New Look. :P --Nitpicker of the Wastes 12:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mentally or physically? --Devilmanozzy 12:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I love me some Ren &amp; Stimpy.. --RazoE 13:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

All I want is a salary in wikia job as admin or moderator. Too bad that they never provide this kind of service. --Ericard 12:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

For the record, in all seriousness you know this change in skins will be all forgotten in 6 months. Any users that flee will feel stupid as it really isn't that big of a difference. This is the internet, change is a constant on here. I remember the days when I'd surf the web in Netscape and I loved my Tripod Web site. Oh how times have changed. But the memories. --Devilmanozzy 12:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That, or Wikia's which moved to new hosts prosper, and wikia will be a shadow of its former self.
 * Remember, its the Big Wikia's that want out. --AlienGamer 12:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember, its the Big Wikia's that want out. --AlienGamer 12:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Users new to wikia will come to those wikis and take over, which will make in effect a competitor wiki. A Evil Clone. And wikia owns the content therefore you have no legal action to take it down. --Devilmanozzy 13:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No one said anything about taking it down. But for how long will new users last? If the community stops being active in a wikia, eventually the Wikia dies, new users will make a few edits here and there, but tell me, how many of them actually stay to make a lasting impression? --AlienGamer 13:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Based on the results here and the previous Skin update Monaco, 2 years. Looks to be the numbers. I came right after the whole Monaco, and up til mid 2009 there were "dead" wikis everywhere. New people come to wikia all the time. I leave here, and within a year someone will take over Ghostbusters Wiki. I came in as the last crew left as I recall. --Devilmanozzy 13:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Same for me with the Reborn Wikia, but this time new users will have two options, so where do you think users will go..An up-to-date database, or an abandoned Wikia? Some might go to the abandoned, but its a lot more fun working with an active community that it is working by yourself. --AlienGamer 13:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sad truth, People like to be in control, so someone that likes Reborn (never heard of it, is it a game?) will come along and take over. People don't care if there is a better version. You are aware of the whole Transformers Wikia vs Transformers Wiki conflict right? Anyways people still edit and update Transformers Wikia. So there you go. --Devilmanozzy 14:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, its an Anime. Well, time will tell --AlienGamer 14:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah I was just over there. Thought I'd look. Yeah your templates will all have to be redone as the new look has flattened them. But that wont take more than a hour or two to fix. --Devilmanozzy 14:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Its not just the Templates. Our Episode pages, and Character pages will all have to be redone. Thats gonna take longer. --AlienGamer 14:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Once you have a grip on how the new widths are, most templates will become easier to manage. Your front like mine and others took a blow when the width changed. I'd say change the widths of box 1 and box 2. It is not hard to fix. Annoying, but not hard to fix. Infact you really only need to resize the 1 box. --Devilmanozzy 14:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's a lot more to do than that. By community vote we decided to use pics to illustrate important moments in an episode, check what this page looks like in the new skin. --AlienGamer 14:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Answer I have is move all the episode pictures into Gallery at the bottom of the page. That is what most wikis I know with do. --Devilmanozzy 14:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Second possible answer: all the images are at 250 px which is too big. try 175px instead. --Devilmanozzy 14:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thats what I meant by mass change in all Articles. --AlienGamer 14:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Any reason in particular why the general Wikia Monaco skin is all f***ed up on FireFox? The "More" button that should display more options won't pop-out when I click it, so I can't change my skin.

I honestly don't care about a skin change, I just wanna know why everything's f***ed up. --AtlasSoldier 13:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, I was able to change my skin from Monaco to New Wikia Look....still horribly f***ed up. --AtlasSoldier 13:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

It should be fixed now. We had some caching issues this morning which were affecting Monaco. Sorry for the problem. --Sannse 19:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, so the new Terms of Use mean that logs, article comments and achievements and all those bullshit-Facebook-style features are mandatory no matter WHAT skin you use? I was relieved that I could hide from the changes by using Monobook but now we have the new features FORCED on us no matter what?

Thanks a bunch Wikia. --Nayayen 13:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Most new features aren't available in Monobook (which will still be available as a personal choice when we switch to the new look). And in both Monobook and the new look, you can remove anything you want to with your personal CSS.

Some features will remain optional (for example, achievements), but they need to be turned off directly rather than with CSS or JS. You can request this via Special:Contact --Sannse 19:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I laugh at the increased adspace, mainly because I HAVE ADBLOCK PLUS. Screw the Wikia ads. --AtlasSoldier 13:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

It seems Wikia is hellbent on forcing some of their biggest wikis to start looking elsewhere. --JMAS 13:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well with the constant pushing of ads, who wouldnt leave? I already block the entire Wikia Spotlights frame with adblock plus, as well as any ads that appear on pages when I'm logged out.
 * (I'm a rebel, f*** yeah!) --AtlasSoldier 13:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * (I'm a rebel, f*** yeah!) --AtlasSoldier 13:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

all the wikias are completely screwed up for me now in Firefox --Remnant 263 13:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

This should be fixed now. Sorry about that, there were some caching issues this morning --Sannse 19:47, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

November 3, 2010

* The option to use Monaco will be removed.

WIKIA MUST CLOSE --SiPlus 13:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I can't navigate the Wikia on Firefox because everything's shifted off to the side of the screen. Was there are any point changing the look? --The Undying 13:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No. Was there any point in anything these jackasses have been doing? No. But they magically think that "this will attract new users and encourage edits". --Legoace342 13:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

This was a bug this morning, there were caching problems for Monaco, everything should be back now --Sannse 19:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

>login to Borderlands Wikia >page is all f***ed up >happen upon this blog randomly >"The option to use Monaco will be removed." ....F*CK THIS COMPANY. --AtlasSoldier 13:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Looked ok in both the new Wikia and the Monaco. What are the issues your seeing? I'm not seeing them. I am currently useing Firefox 3.6.8 (Outdated a bit) --Devilmanozzy 13:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Everythings all fucked up. Go to borderlands.wikia.com and look at it. Under Monaco the entire page is just a horrible mess of bad formatting and broken templating and such. Any Wikia that doesn't support the New Look is buggered up. Even the Fallout Wikia is messed. --AtlasSoldier 14:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

why don't you fix the Firefox coding, especially since its the one you recommend? --Remnant 263 13:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ya, get firebug --MasterChief343Spark 15:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Sigh, during any type of switchover there are bugs and glitches. Probably they have that all resolved by December. --Devilmanozzy 13:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

And so begins the search for new hosting&amp;hellip; --Darth Karika 13:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

pages are messed up, only logged-in by opening log-in in new tab, can't change skin. i'm going to assume it's the fault of wikia. --JBed 13:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

We had some problems with Monaco caching this morning, all should be fine now! Sorry for the problem --Sannse 19:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

WTF? The option to use Monaco will be removed. Fucking Wikia, I fuck away from this company. Fuck all and staff. --Gudyś 14:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Chrome ftw! ^_^ --142.167.136.255 14:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

sorry i was that anon wasn't logged on wtf --Megahypernova 14:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

In case, no, seeing as the Staff don't want to read the comments, they might find this interesting: http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Category:English

That's how many wikis (sorry, this is only the English ones, the full list doesn't work) have quit Wikia. You can see quite a few of your biggest communities (for Staff, read: money-makers) have got a place ready.

Smart move, literally for wiki users, sarcastically for Wikia. --Nayayen 14:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * O.o I like this list --AlienGamer 14:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Smart move for what? --Lssj4 14:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Now I have to get use to finding all my stuff again by new look I thought they ment just new colors not everything rearranged. --Lssj4 14:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dude the page ain't even loading. --Devilmanozzy 15:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Infact none of http://www.shoutwiki.com/ is working. --Devilmanozzy 15:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Devilmanozzy: That's because a rather large Wikia wiki is currently being imported to ShoutWiki. --Xd1358 15:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then how small are they? Man that is weak. --Devilmanozzy 15:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Stay at Wikia then. It is your choice. --Xd1358 15:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Still not loading. 14 minutes of they site down. Yeah I want to move there. Sure. God you people are stupid. --Devilmanozzy 15:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, and Staying here is the Wiser option, after all, we can be sure that the kind staff will keep providing the excellent service that they have been offering recently. Why, did you say u want more ads in the Wikia, well then, contact the staff, we will be happy to help you out. Did you say you want to be creative, we can help you out there as well, we left in the option for you to change the colour of your Wikia, to give you a license to let your creativity go wild.
 * Yes, definitely, Staying here is the best choice. Our future projects include us making sure that the Information of the Wikia gets even smaller, after all, Content is highly over rated, lets replace that with more image and ad tools  :P --112.135.106.248 15:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If Wikia had this problem, everyone would be all over them. But Shoutwiki is a underdog so your like its ok, just wait. 20 minutes of NOTHING. --Devilmanozzy 15:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why should I care what you think Anonymous user boy? You are not even signed in. --Devilmanozzy 15:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you blind or just stuborn. Did you read the comment above, stating that the Wikia is currently uploading a large Wiki in there. We have stuck with Wikia over the years, defended it when people though otherwise, but this was the final step. Your free to stay and kiss the ass of the staff all you want --112.135.106.248 15:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks like they hit there limit over at Shoutwiki. What has it been.....like 25 minutes now? And that is from when I started trying to get in there. --Devilmanozzy 15:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sure, Devilmanozzy, as I said, stay at Wikia. Feel free to use the new skin. If you don't like Shoutwiki, who the fuck are you expecting to care about what you say? That's right, nobody. --Xd1358 15:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * My sentiments exactly Xd1358, Devil boy, stay here all you want, no one's forcing you to leave. --112.135.106.248 15:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You are free to choose, but do note that, as stated somewhere above, ShoutWiki is being slow because of a large import. That's why you can't load it. --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 15:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then why don't you guys go talk to yourselves over at your shoutwiki......Oh wait its down. I forgot. Ok keep proving my point then. Yeah I like Wikia, but this IS wikia I'm on. Seems logical to me. Over 30 minutes, wont load. --Devilmanozzy 15:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dude, seriously, your entitled to your opinion so let others have theirs --AlienGamer 15:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * How long will Shoutwiki be done? I'm sure your users want to know. I do. So I can look at it. --Devilmanozzy 15:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then wait till the Wikia which is moving, moves, as pointed out above --AlienGamer 15:47, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * AlienGamer, You'd be very angry if Reborn wiki was down over 30 minutes, and you know that. If it was my Ghostbusters wiki I'd be steamed. They need to learn how to promote good product. PR here is getting bad. --Devilmanozzy 15:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * How about editing your-beloved-Wikia instead of mocking other wiki-hosting sites? It seems that you don't give a shit about ShoutWiki, so why would you like to see it? It seems that others agree with me&amp;hellip; --Xd1358 15:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Like you mentioned, they're the new kids on the block. I bet they never knew that this kind of traffic will hit them this soon, so obviouly they weren't prepared..
 * Yes, i'd be ticked if the Reborn Wikia was down, but you have to remember, Wikia wern't always the big shots that they are now, once upon a time, they were just as small as Shout Wiki, but grew into what they are. So..give them a bit of time, like we gave Wikia. --AlienGamer 15:50, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, i'd be ticked if the Reborn Wikia was down, but you have to remember, Wikia wern't always the big shots that they are now, once upon a time, they were just as small as Shout Wiki, but grew into what they are. So..give them a bit of time, like we gave Wikia. --AlienGamer 15:50, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm calling them out, cause people need to know these things. I'll check again in 20 minutes. Need to get ready for work in RL. --Devilmanozzy 15:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * /Your/ Ghostbusters wiki? Since when do you own it? Perhaps you should go and edit /your/ wiki. And per AlienGamer. --Xd1358 15:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just do what you feel like. I already explained why ShoutWiki won't load right now, you should have a little patience and try again later. --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 15:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Xd1358, what about me? --AlienGamer 15:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Aliengamer: That comment was directed toward Devilmanozzy. No one owns a wiki. The community does. (And yeah, too bad Wikia owns it too...) --Xd1358 15:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nice Devimazoo- oh whatever it is. I like knowing that the main people in the community who are staying are the ones who are just as kind and helpful as you. --Basilmemories 15:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Back and its been an Hour now since I first tried. No Dice.
 * I think the people posting in this thread other than me, are looking to promote a new wiki provider. It begins off with a promo bashing Wikia, which is common place on this blog replies. But the reason I'm calling them out is to point out they are not 100% dependable. Looks to be a personal Wiki based on what I see in this thread. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try them out, and maybe as they grow, they will become more dependable. But today, they were not. A hour offline is a bit much. --Devilmanozzy 16:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the people posting in this thread other than me, are looking to promote a new wiki provider. It begins off with a promo bashing Wikia, which is common place on this blog replies. But the reason I'm calling them out is to point out they are not 100% dependable. Looks to be a personal Wiki based on what I see in this thread. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try them out, and maybe as they grow, they will become more dependable. But today, they were not. A hour offline is a bit much. --Devilmanozzy 16:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Basilmemories, I'm stating the facts which people need to know. --Devilmanozzy 16:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen how many sites there are because it won't load, so as a guess I say 50-100 and counting? --75.71.39.16 17:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Glad to see that it's not just me who's seeing really messed up pages using Firefox. I had to jump through hoops to switch my skin to the new wika thing just so I can actually continue work on it today.

So does this mean that the Monaco sidebar menus will be going away? It just seems really weird to have the menus on top of the page instead of on the side, where it's a bit more aesthetically pleasing and easy to navigate. I'm looking at the new wikis now and everything just seems so squished together, and things don't really seem to flow all that well. I'm not to going to be screaming like everyone else, but it just a huge bummer that we before were able to really customize our pages, to...this. I'm more sad than angry at this whole thing. It's going to take some getting used to I'm sure.

Edit: ALSO, the fixed widths for the pages just seems like a huge waste of space. 600 some pixels? Seriously? It just seems so cluttered and weird! --Keetah 14:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know now I have to find everything all over again it was easy to find everything cause it was right on the side not the bottom. --Lssj4 14:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree my page looks horrible now I cant even put things the way I want them everything is just klumped together I really dont like this new look.Not to mention it was easier to see when everything was light colors not dark dull colors. --Lssj4 14:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly the same problem. I switched default skin to a monaco preset instead of "custom" and that fixed it for my custom monaco, though removes it for logged out users. Had to stick a notice on the front page of the wiki. Hopefully it'll be sorted out soon. --85.234.65.51 14:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Brb gonna try to custimize my page. --Lssj4 14:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nope. I had to switch completely to the 'New Wika' option to even see my own wiki without horrible broken code everywhere. Even loading the default monaco skins instead of my custom one didn't fix it. Oh well, I saved my custom code in the hopes they will fix this soon. But still you'd think they would have beta tested this for firefox, since that's the browser they tell everyone to use in the first place! --Keetah 14:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know right this makes me think they dont even care what's best for us. --Lssj4 14:43, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That would appear to be the case since we have had only one staff comment so far and only a few more on the other blog by Susan Taylor. All of them dodged legit questions, or avoided answering at all. --Lancer1289 14:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * HOW DID YOU GET IT BACK TO THE OTHER ONE!?!?!?!??!? --MasterChief343Spark 15:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Teen Titans Wiki. Ed Wiki. DC Wiki. All 3 suck now. --75.71.39.16 16:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the distorted Monaco everyone, there were caching problems this morning. All should be back normal now --Sannse 19:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Why can't you listen? All of the admins here have pretty much said "No, don't do this. Make it an option". What is so bad about an option, anyway? Those who want this new look can take it. Those who love Monobook can keep it, and those who have infatuated themselves with Monaco can keep that as well. Please listen to your people! Lead us to the Promised Land, not Egypt! --The Inexistent 14:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know we dont like this look not at all. --Lssj4 14:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Becuase they won't listen. They don't want to support three skins, and they just keep responding to questions with PR stuff. --Lancer1289 14:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Now I cant eve find anything anymore my page looks like mess everything was rearanged for me in som dum look I dont like. --Lssj4 14:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know do whats best for the us we dont like this at all its so dark dull why before everything was light colorful now I cant even read my comment's clearly. --Lssj4 14:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Lead us to the Promised Land, not Egypt"
 * You do realize we aren't a bunch of Jews wandering through a desert, right? --AtlasSoldier 14:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * You do realize we aren't a bunch of Jews wandering through a desert, right? --AtlasSoldier 14:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Were not just gonna "go with the flow" you understand that right? --Lssj4 14:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wait a minute what's monaco again? --Lssj4 14:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * i think monaco was actually the old, good one --MasterChief343Spark 15:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah it was they disabled it. --Lssj4 15:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Monaco isn't being turned off until November... there were some caching problems this morning,but it's back now --Sannse 20:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Do you realize how many admins and communities began moving their wikis because of this change? --Akadirgun 14:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Everything just looks lazy. --Lssj4 14:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

>Wikia feeding us PR bullshit >Not actually answering our questions about the skin >Oh look, even more PR bullshit Here Wikia, I have a special message for you in regards to your constant stream of PR bullshit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PaHcZUHI00 --AtlasSoldier 14:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * LISTEN to the PEOPLE who use YOUR SITE and see YOUR ADS and make you MONEY, WIKIA!!! --75.71.39.16 17:50, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Are they SEROIUS!Monaco doesnt even work anymore only monobook and I dont want that WHY WONT YOU STAFF READ OUR COMMENTS! --Lssj4 14:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * This people are mad!WE ALL HATE IT my page looks like mess it just has stuff and links scatered all around the page!Like someone broke it! --Lssj4 14:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If indeed Wikia disabled Monaco early, then it is clear evidence that they don't care, but is is more than likely a side effect of them trying to implment the new skin, and even the servers don't like it. They broke themselves becuase of the skin they now have to support. The servers that is. --Lancer1289 15:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know its disabled they dont even care I heard about say OVER 100 people quit wiki cause of this and I know its gonna go up. --Lssj4 15:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * My Monaco has also failed too. I'm glad to see this is a more universal issue than just myself. --Fegaxeyl 15:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ya, some of the links over typo ALMOST ALL of the links over lap --MasterChief343Spark 15:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * THIS SUCKS! --75.71.39.16 16:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed :p --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 16:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Why are you so insistent on driving away your users and customers? I fail to see how any good can come out of these changes for anyone. --Tahngarthor 15:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * AGREED!People are already quiting wiki!I know this is gonna bring all wikia's popularity WAY WAY DOWN but I guess they dont care. --Lssj4 15:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

So glad we create our new wiki projects outside of Wikia. Wikia was a good idea in the beginning, but it's been a very slippery slope downhill. When are you guys finally going public anyway? You are supposed to be profitable now. --64.17.230.98 15:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I KNOW!They dont even care wiki was just fine until this stupid new look. --Lssj4 15:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

This is just horrible WIKI IS GOING TO FAIL NOW!Sanse why wont you RESPOND?!I talked to you once before why not now?Talk above at the top. --Lssj4 15:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * sorry but i still don't get what's actually going on Lssj4... :s --Bardock. 15:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * sorry --Bardock. 16:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Talk above at the top. --Lssj4 16:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Neither do I.... --Piccolo The Super Namek 16:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

This is no good.... --ProGamerP9 15:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

GAAAK! THIS IS HORRIBLE! CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NOV. 3! (almost unplugs computer) WHOA, BAD IDEA! --MasterChief343Spark 15:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well I don't think I'm going to leave here (since I don't know of any other free real user-friendly wiki sites out there) since I only made a small wiki just for my webcomic with only one completed page so far, but I can understand why the big communities will want to go abandon ship now. But can they at least put up tutorials and such for the new skin, so we can at least TRY to customize it somewhat? Can they at least make it bearable by at least taking out the horrible blurb about who uploaded a picture under the images? It's just going to look SUPER weird if you're the only person editing a particular wiki.

I think the only users that will be left on this site are dumb people like me that really don't really know where else to go and how to really edit on other sites. And I can't think that having a community of angry disgruntled editors is going to end in Wikia's favor. --Keetah 15:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed I wanna stay here cause I have no where esle to go.But this has to go. --Lssj4 15:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * hey, you have firefox right?
 * get firebug
 * oh, you already have it, of course. --MasterChief343Spark 15:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have internet explorer and this is madness! --Lssj4 15:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Despite this, Wikia will probably still be the best choice for really small wikis (like mine), but for the big huge communities, that are going to have pages of text and a billion images, I dunnp if it will be in their best interests to stay. Like, I'm not all super huge into customizing. All I really want is light text and a dark background for content, and perhaps a custom page background. But woah, some of those communities out there have spent so much time and effort into custom coding the CSS Monaco that it just feels like a dick move by Wikia to take that coding option away.
 * And everything is still messed up for firefox. Wowzers. --Keetah 15:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * And everything is still messed up for firefox. Wowzers. --Keetah 15:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Hm, i just went to "random page" and what does it do? it takes me to something ABOUT monaco. COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT! --MasterChief343Spark 15:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Where is that page? --Lssj4 15:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

The problem with this update is not the skin. As long as Monobook will stay as a personal option, then it is fine. The problem is the css and javascript restrictions. If a wiki does not like Wikia's new additions–which are stupid and useless for the most–then it's their choice IMO. Several stupid features have been introduced recently–blogs, article comments and achievements to be specific. I do understand that some wikis have them, but some wikis are actually encyclopedias, whose aim is to create a comprehensive encyclopedia.

A comprehensive encyclopedia is not achieved by having blogs and article comments. They are useless. If users want to socialize, there is always an IRC channel. The purpose of an encyclopedia is not to be a new Facebook and Twitter.

That's the reason why "professional wikis" want them disabled. If Wikia still forces them on us, then God help us. --Xd1358 15:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * BOOO! that is half of what makes these sites fun --MasterChief343Spark 15:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you were bothered enough to read what I just wrote, you would see that I don't oppose the existence of blogs, article comments and achievements&amp;ndash;just keep them optional. There are actually editors and wikis out there who try to be professional and serious, and trying to build a thing called "encyclopedia". --Xd1358 15:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You mean, not have any comments, blog posts, etc.? --75.71.39.16 16:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Wookieepedia hasn't had&amp;ndash;and will hopefully not get&amp;ndash;those features. --Xd1358 16:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * this is RETARDED i dont even like what you people did to the blog LET US KEEP OUR WIKI YHE WAY IT IS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --Saiyn prince 5821 17:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Excellent points. I personally do not believe that "professional wikis" can survive on Wikia much longer due to the current business model.  These new changes/policies are simply too much to abide by in exchange for free web hosting.
 * Seems like it is about time that many move to privately hosted sites and import all existing content using CC-by-SA. --Pagoda 17:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems like it is about time that many move to privately hosted sites and import all existing content using CC-by-SA. --Pagoda 17:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

goodbye, i am leaving for now --MasterChief343Spark 15:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

This skin is a nightmare and you don't have any real reason to make the skin mandatory. Some people like it, so it should be a user option.

You are going to remove Monaco because most people will switch to it when the new look is implemented.

The top bar was made because you want money. Going to another wiki = landing on the main page = viewing ads.

Vector does not support ads. That's why you are not adding it to Wikia.

Now, tell me, do you have any reason other than "It will improve Wikia", "It is the right thing to do" etc.?

UPDATE: So, we are not allowed to remove features like image attribution? THAT'S COMPLETELY STUPID. We should be able to do whatever we want with the CSS pages, not just change the colours (removing the sidebar, ads and a few other features should be against the ToU though).

I'm pretty sure the real reason to the change is ad-related. Wikia is was a non-profit company! --Staffan15 15:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * emphasis on WAS --MasterChief343Spark 15:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I couldn't have said it better. Image attribution on copyrighted images may be illegal as well. --Xd1358 15:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree to all of your points. Just to mention it though, Wikia is not and never was a non-profit company. It is a for-profit company from its beggining. (see the article on Wikipedia) --Ifaigios 16:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

back --MasterChief343Spark 15:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

hello? --MasterChief343Spark 15:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please stay on topic. --Xd1358 15:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * everyone left --MasterChief343Spark 15:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, they're just replying on Worthwhile posts rather than a post which says "hello?" --AlienGamer 15:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes on topic is about this new look. --Lssj4 16:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * ... --Lssj4 16:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Lssj4: "Hello?" in on-topic? :O
 * @AlienGamer: Actually, Wikia staff do respond to everything but negative comments. Wikia staff's standard reply to positive comments is "Thanks for the opinion. Glad to have you onboard!" They also reply to completely off-topic comments. Haven't seen to much response to negative comments, though. --Xd1358 16:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No hello is off topic new look is on topic. --Lssj4 16:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Lssj4: Sorry, misread that. --Xd1358 16:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * well, i wasn't expecting a reply to this anyway --MasterChief343Spark 16:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

YES! THE OLD SKIN IS NEW AGAIN! --MasterChief343Spark 15:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The old skin is not back yet. --Lssj4 16:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * was for me --MasterChief343Spark 16:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Bardock talk to me up here ok? --Lssj4 16:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The staff are going change the skins for all wiki's there going to give us this new dum look. --Lssj4 16:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * There also going get rid off the old look PERMANTLY. --Lssj4 16:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * you mean this blue white one and not the orange on of the DBwiki anymore? that would be stupid, it's cool if every wiki has his own skin --Bardock. 16:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * so we can never change in back? --Bardock. 16:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I bet it'll work it well... I think ;) --Piccolo The Super Namek 16:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * What I mean is each wiki is getting not just the colors(Its own colors) but the messed up user page. --Lssj4 16:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Guys listen go try to edit your pages and stuff and see how weird it works. --Lssj4 16:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Our editing feutures are changed. --Lssj4 16:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Guys, I'm 100% sure the wikia staff is working on getting our wikis back to normal. This new skin just makes it look better; I'm 100% sure we'll keep the orangeness of the Dragon Ball Wiki. --SonikFan112 16:14, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Listen its more than colors. --Lssj4 16:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * uhhm oke, i will try and edit my page here....
 * that's awesome sonikfan112, our orange print is the dbwiki print! =D --Bardock. 16:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * that's awesome sonikfan112, our orange print is the dbwiki print! =D --Bardock. 16:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Editing,colors and how everything is organized is all messed up everything is just scatered all around go try to edit something or find our main page on db wiki its o the bottom of the screen. --Lssj4 16:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * See how everything is just scattered not even organized?No more main listings on thee left side of the screen but now on the bottom. --Lssj4 16:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok? --Lssj4 16:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * but is it going to change or did it already change? because if i add on this wiki it's still the same --Bardock. 16:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * what the heck my entire sight changed! it's like it's maximized, what's this? --Bardock. 16:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thats what I was telling you your user page is messed with.Its all rearanged. --Lssj4 16:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Remember the main listings on db wiki on the left side but now its on the bottom. --Lssj4 16:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Check out your user page look how its messed with. --Lssj4 16:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * NO WAY! what's this?! but everyone should know this is VERY annoying, why do they change this?! --Bardock. 16:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * i'm really sorry but i really have to go, i'll speak you about this later oke? --Bardock. 16:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thats what I was saying.Oh well c,ya later. --Lssj4 16:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

It's Special:Random. --Staffan15 16:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

damn it, it was fixed --MasterChief343Spark 16:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, great. I can't reply to comments.

@Lssj4, it's Special:Random. --Staffan15 16:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok?Thanks. --Lssj4 16:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, so you have a new skin? That's a great idea! I'll file it with dropping an atomic bomb on yourself and spitting on a fish. --75.71.39.16 16:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The fish part comes from the song "Dare 2 B Stupid." --75.71.39.16 16:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

@Ifaigios: Ah, thanks. Wish I could change that, but the edit button doesn't show... another bug? :| --Staffan15 16:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Can you tell me, what changes EXACTLY you made? (except editing date) http://www.wikia.com/index.php?title=Terms_of_Use&amp;diff=5013&amp;oldid=5011

By the way, wowwiki.com as unlogged user looks totally awful. --Chommik12 16:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * that's kus world of worcraft sucks by itself --MasterChief343Spark 16:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Check that. --Xd1358 16:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

i got the new style. great --Happy65 16:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I hate this remake. I looked around, and I DON'T LIKE WHAT I'M SEEING!!! --75.71.39.16 16:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know look everything is just scattered like mad. --Lssj4 16:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

man, this sucks. back to tv --MasterChief343Spark 16:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Its back guys THE LOOK IS BACK YAHOOO!Finally they listen to us! --Lssj4 16:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! --Lssj4 16:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Oh come on! By Nov. 3rd we can't edit Monaco anymore? That is bullcrap!!! --Rainbowroad6w 16:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Forget the list they changed it now so now everything is fine. --Lssj4 17:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

OK - but why do 3 browsers (Opera, Chrome and Firefox) have problems displaying just 'bout any wiki TODAY? Did you guys delete the old look too early? IE8 displays fine, but hey ... not a big fan of IE.

And yes, I've removed cookies and anything that could cause this problem on my side. --84.193.65.149 16:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Which Wikia are u takin about? My Default browser is IE8, but evrything works fine on Chrome and Firefox as well --AlienGamer 17:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * What?I have I.E7 and mine works fine. --Lssj4 17:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Listen all those others work fine and so does I.E7 --Lssj4 17:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

oh ya it's back hell ya --MasterChief343Spark 17:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah I know so happy. --Lssj4 17:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

So, it's what,9:30 over in SF. Time to start answering questions Wikia. I think you know all of our concerns by now because you claim to have read all the comments so far. I am wondering how you will justify changing the look when you have about 800 complaints on this blog alone. --Godisme 17:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They're actually making replies right now, not that any of them are actually helpful --TheDevilHand888 17:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * oh, are they? --MasterChief343Spark 17:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

holy cow now comments are weird --MasterChief343Spark 17:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

s --MasterChief343Spark 17:47, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

You know, all your answers are so F****** annoying, Its like an automated message. No tellin y, just that its better, are u guys freakin bots?! --AlienGamer 17:56, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

So, after Nov. 3, what happens to Monaco? Do all our Wikis convert automatically to Oasis? --Moonraker-6 17:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yep. --Dancing Penguin 18:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Will you pay attention to the complaints?? If you won't why do you bother to ask out opinions? --Proxima Centauri 18:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I just tuned into the thread. --Moonraker-6 18:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

'''Darthipedia has moved to ShoutWiki! Wikia, don't you see how big wikis are moving?'''

The same comment Solar Dragon made, but this should be replied, not like his, which was ignored. perhaps not ignored, but no staff member saw it. --TheHomer 18:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ratchet &amp; Clank wiki is moving to ShoutWiki, as well as possibly some other wikis. --Tigernose 18:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Call of Duty Wikia's as well --AlienGamer 18:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * w:c:callofduty is not moving anywhere. --Xd1358 19:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Also, has the theme designer been enabled? --TheHomer 18:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes it has. Special:ThemeDesigner  Its actually pretty decent. :) --Resa1983 18:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I can't see ShoutWiki! Link doesn't work! --Station7 18:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Most likely the whole site is bogged down by the sheer amount of people jumping ship. It'll probably be back to normal in a few hours or so. --Keetah 18:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks Keetah. I just want to look, that's all! --Station7 19:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I heard it depends on that they are importing a Wikia wiki to Shoutwiki. The import script can cause some slow page loads. --Xd1358 19:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Tell me, why is the Navigation Box of other wiki's bigger than the Navigation of the Wiki's own navigation? --AlienGamer 18:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please no BS answer like"It's better that way" or "Due to feedback". I need a straight forward answer to this, and the content space. U guys never explain your logic, hell, that's y up to this point some major Wikia's have already moved out --AlienGamer 18:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Bah, but i've already lost all faith in the staff. --AlienGamer 18:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly. "We want others to forget all about your wiki, the wiki they wanted to look at, and go to one of Wikia's other wikis as this generates more money for us as more users see the ads!!!" --Solar Dragon 18:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The answer, my friend is that wikia staff is just so mind blowingly STUPID that they just make every single thing the opposite of what everyone wants. --Frank-West 18:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * On that note, maybe if we all give positive feedback they'll be like "NOE THEY LIEk THiS WE MUST GET RID IT" --Frank-West 18:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikia blew the whistle and pulled the chain. The new look's a chocolate choo-choo train. --75.71.39.16 18:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

wikia staff is mostly entirely morons. That's this situation in a nutshell. --Frank-West 18:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

What does everyone think about this? I think you guys from the staff or whatever are forgetting about that. --SummonerPascal 18:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I read up to Page 10. Sannse is replying, and he's just doing PR work. I'm serious, Sannse, you put a poll on your blog asking "Do you like the new look?" with two options, those being Yes and No, you'll get at most 5% of the voters to say that they like it. The remaining nineteen twentieths will say NO! WE HATE IT! LEAVE IT AS IT WAS WITH MONACO! --75.71.39.16 18:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * And that 5% will consist of Staff :P --AlienGamer 18:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, I think that some people like it. 3% of the votes will come from staff. --75.71.39.16 18:51, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The staff isn't even replying to the negative comments! They'll answer the tech stuff, but they are going to still shove full speed ahead and ram it down our throats!
 * If I can ever get on to ShoutWiki, I'll smile so wide my mouth could be used as a solar panel powering the entire U.S. --75.71.39.16 18:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * If I can ever get on to ShoutWiki, I'll smile so wide my mouth could be used as a solar panel powering the entire U.S. --75.71.39.16 18:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

And once more: '''Darhipedia and Call of Duty Wikia has moved to ShoutWiki! Wikia, don't you see how big wikis are moving?''' --TheHomer 18:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you honestly think they want to? --75.71.39.16 18:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nice logo, by the way. It looks commanding, the kind of thing you'd see on a guy leading an armed revolution. --75.71.39.16 19:00, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I am from the Call of Duty Wiki, it is NOT moving anywhere. --Darkraider09 19:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I saw that on the ShoutWiki list --AlienGamer 19:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Really, Number 9? It should move, because I, for one, would commend the movement (unless Wikia does something it will never do and actually makes the new format an option, in which case I would hate that it jumped ship). --75.71.39.16 19:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is on the Shoutwiki list, but that does not mean that w:c:callofduty is moving. Someone just created their own CoD wiki on Shoutwiki. --Xd1358 19:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia, don't force us to use the skin! THROW IT AWAY, OR BETTER YET, MAKE IT OPTIONAL! --75.71.39.16 18:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Cool, so now seem the best moment to get our wikis out of Wikia. Boycott? No need of Boycott. Wikia is boycotting itself with the new skin.

Even if Wikia maintain a copy of our wikis here, the awful look of all of the articles here would make them simply useless, so they will remain dead, for sure. --Ciencia Al Poder 19:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not exactly a boycott ... it feels like I have been alienated at Wikia.
 * I've tried using the new look at my 1024x768 resolution desktop but the combination of lost real estate and GUI productivity hit is simply unbearable. In my case the highly praised MyTools bar is simply not able to be customized and I've had no response for nearly a week regarding this problem.
 * Given Wikia's unreasonably short lifespan for the Monaco skin I have zero confidence that the new look will last much longer than 2 years. Therefore I have zero motivation to "learn" the new look especially since the only wiki host that uses it is WIkia.
 * I suppose that any tweaking of the wikis I leave behind at Wikia will have to be done by either Wikia staff or some motivated individual in each respective community.
 * A very sad turn of events. --Najevi 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I suppose that any tweaking of the wikis I leave behind at Wikia will have to be done by either Wikia staff or some motivated individual in each respective community.
 * A very sad turn of events. --Najevi 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * A very sad turn of events. --Najevi 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * A very sad turn of events. --Najevi 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, so staff are saying that they will post a review of the feedback and changes that have been made during the course of the beta testing next week. Is there some reason you cannot tell people a few of those things now and save the guts of it for next week? Will it ruin the surprise of the blog post next week, kill the suspense just to tell the community something that will help them understand all this better and make them feel that you are actually listening and understanding? In case you have not noticed there are a ton of people here who feel that you are not doing that.This is needed to calm people down. --Yyp 19:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well said. --Lancer1289 19:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * What is needed is a response to the negative comments. I am serious, Sannse and the rest are replying to tech questions and a legal question, but comments? Nope. Not one reply has been posted dealing with the complaints. --75.71.39.16 19:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Quit killing Wikia, guys. I mean, we ought to give it a chance. It's not like they aren't listening, oh no. For if they weren't listening, they wouldn't respond to our complaints, and the wouldn't make it optional, and everybody wouldn't be screaming that the site sucks!!! They must be listening, for if they weren't, wouldn't everybody be talking about jumping ship, leaving, getting away from a site that is in essence based on the idea of encyclopedias for movies, books, and TV shows? I mean, it's not like they're forcing us to use the new format, and telling everyone who doesn't want to to just shut up, or, as is more likely, just responding with PR that sounds as though it's just something to say? I mean, it is quite obvious that were we to just give it a chance, they wouldn't roll over us to make decisions. No, if we accept it, they will ask us our opinion next time and let us craft the site.

And yes, to all those who were confused by this post, I would like to point out that it is pure sarcasm (although not as well done as Airhogs777. That user is nasty!). --75.71.39.16 19:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and what if we don't want our user name plastered all over a wiki? What then, eh? Image attribution and the new history thing is so stupid. Remove these stupid fail features. --Solar Dragon 19:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and will you soon just forget about the skin, shrink article space even more and have the rest of the page filled with ads? That is all you seem to care about. ads and money! You don;t care about the editors at all. You are just a business trying to get money. --Solar Dragon 19:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * "A business that makes nothing but money is a poor kind of business." Quotation attributed to Henry Ford, automotive innovator and founder of the Ford car company. --75.71.39.16 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

There arent enough good changes to make up for the bad ones in my opinion :O

Although its something that, like all updates, we'll get used to, I'd rather the admins could customize out of some stuff IE sidebar is way too big --Technobliterator 19:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Let me tell the staff a story. This morning, I woke up. At about 11 EDT, I logged on to the Teen Titans wiki. It was messed up! I did the same with the Ed, Edd n Eddy Wiki, to discover that it was going wrong! So I checked one of the largest wikis I know, the DC Wiki. Likewise. Seriously, Wikia, I think I have only seen 10-13 users so far who actually LIKE this thing. You %@$#&amp;$ up. --75.71.39.16 19:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * That was a bug. Not the new skin by the way. --Solar Dragon 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Really? Well, okay, I'll check again. --75.71.39.16 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * glitches like that arent the new skin --Technobliterator 19:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * TT and Ed are still messed up. DC looks normal though. --75.71.39.16 19:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Allright, I checked out the skin, and it looks like a total ripoff of http://www.howstuffworks.com/ --75.71.39.16 19:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * really, looks more like facebook to me, but only a little bit --Technobliterator 19:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

[http://www.wikia.com/go " ...the new look is sleek, stylish, functional, and overall performs very well." - Wikia user with over 2,500 edits]

[http://es.gta.wikia.com/wiki/Especial:Editcount/GTAAAF " ...the new look is awfull, the articles are gonna be very stucked and I will kill the noob who wrote that." - Wikia user with over 22,000 edits] --GTAAAF 19:29, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Who is that user? Sannse? --Solar Dragon 19:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have 200+ edits and I hate it. --75.71.39.16 19:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * "I hate the new skin. It is like a social networking site. The toolbar sometimes fails to load, the loading times are awful, the right aligned toolbar is too big, image attribution is awful and fixed width is the stupidest thing ever though of. I recommend you find a new wiki host and do not wate your time with Wikia." Wikia user with 36,592 edits --Solar Dragon 19:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You quote a person with 2500 Edits...how about u quote me, I've got 24,061 edits, here you go:
 * "A disgusting mix of all the worst things Wikia could provide, integrated into one package which will be shoved down all your throats" --AlienGamer 19:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * "A disgusting mix of all the worst things Wikia could provide, integrated into one package which will be shoved down all your throats" --AlienGamer 19:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * lol, 82,653 Edits between GTAAAF, Solar Dragon and Me...and they quote someone with 2500 edits. Do u have a filter installed for negative comments? --AlienGamer 19:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have over 3000 edits, so I guess wikia will value my quote:
 * "The new look is horrible and you are shoving it down our throats. Queries as to why you're doing this are meant with statements about 'click tracking' and 'direct measurements of wiki activity' that 'all point to the same problems with Monaco', but you never tell us how click tracking and measurements of activity have given you this data. Also, you've never said exactly what the aforementioned problems are. In short, the production of your statements about the change has been intimately involved with the bovine digestive tract." --Isdrakthül 19:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * "The new look is horrible and you are shoving it down our throats. Queries as to why you're doing this are meant with statements about 'click tracking' and 'direct measurements of wiki activity' that 'all point to the same problems with Monaco', but you never tell us how click tracking and measurements of activity have given you this data. Also, you've never said exactly what the aforementioned problems are. In short, the production of your statements about the change has been intimately involved with the bovine digestive tract." --Isdrakthül 19:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * User with almost 10.000 edits: make the width bigger, at least by 100px. --Final Cannon 20:26, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Stop changing it! Wikia is fine as it is! --LegoAlchemist 19:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Too late. --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 19:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed, don't box us in. --Simant 19:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I wonder are wikia listening to the feedback? --Technobliterator 19:35, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No. --Solar Dragon 19:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, does it look like they are? --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 19:37, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I mean, the problem is if they dont listen, theyre just alienating users. Maybe its because we're shouting to much or something? But I think the new looks issues are:
 * #Too much like a social network, cool, but soxcial networking has ruined wikis :O
 * #Sidebar is too big which wrecks content
 * #I'd like wikia to let us customize with .css --Technobliterator 19:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They are only answering tech questions, and dodging negative comments. Granted some of them didn't have appropiate language, so I really can't say I blame them for dodging those. However some comments asking the staff for responses on matters have gone unaswered. One comment they even dodged around the negativeness and answered tech questions.
 * They also site a new blog that will be going up nex week, however IHMO, if they want to stop this tyrade, then they need to post something ASAP that shows they are listening. Becuase given that they have only answered tech questions so far, it seems to many people, myself included, that they aren't listening, despite what they say. --Lancer1289 19:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * They also site a new blog that will be going up nex week, however IHMO, if they want to stop this tyrade, then they need to post something ASAP that shows they are listening. Becuase given that they have only answered tech questions so far, it seems to many people, myself included, that they aren't listening, despite what they say. --Lancer1289 19:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Technobliterator: That is probably some of the main issues and they aren't making it any better by ignoring many comments from people asking them to reply as to why all these chagnes that reduce the accessability of wikis are being made. --Lancer1289 19:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed, besides them its an alright skin to me --Technobliterator 19:45, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They have moved away from being a site with links to many encyclopedias on books, movies, and TV shows that any fan could edit to being a corporation that MAKES ME ANGRY! GIVE US A CHOICE!!! --75.71.39.16 19:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, as stated in some comments before, wikia learned that admins want to hide or remove some of the most useless parts of the skin like image attribution, and then they changed ToS to prohibit us from doing that. So yes, they listen --Ciencia Al Poder 19:50, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wish they didnt do that --Technobliterator 19:53, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The problem is that the things they listen to are the things we don't want them to listen to. --75.71.39.16 19:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You mean the 0.5% of users who actually like it? --Solar Dragon 19:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

There's an Elvis Costello song called "5ive Gears in Reverse." Wikia needs to shift into one of them NOW! --75.71.39.16 19:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I will add this each time the comments pages fill out with so many comments Wikia doesn't see it: '''Darthipedia has moved to ShoutWiki! Wikia, don't you see how big wikis are moving because of this skin?''' --TheHomer 19:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They run in reverse, i.e. from the last page back to the first. I think they're on page 8 by now. --75.71.39.16 19:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They got to page four. --75.71.39.16 19:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They're addressing technical issues and ignoring the rest... --Isdrakthül 19:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The same one over and over again too. --Solar Dragon 19:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it's currently six answers for the same question. Once is enough. --Lancer1289 20:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Can Monobook be used as Default for a Wikia, atleast give us that --AlienGamer 19:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * They stated that it can be used as a personal option. However, all visitors will see the new skin.  This basically takes away the admin's ability to choose a skin that visitors see. --99.139.148.120 20:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Why are interlanguage links gone in the new skin? Lots of wikias have many language versions. --95.40.147.167 19:49, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

We're closing in on 1000 comments. About 900 of these are negative. Guess how many of these 900 are ignored? --75.71.39.16 19:58, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * All of them, and they even dodged negative feedback in some comments they answered. --Lancer1289 19:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Correctumundo. --75.71.39.16 20:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I actually feel sorry for the Staff. I doubt that they had anything to do with this change, its probably the higher ups of Wikia, but they'll end up getting the stick.

At least convey our messages back to them.

But If i'm wrong, may you all burn in Hell. --TheMist 19:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

And once more: '''Darthipedia has moved to ShoutWiki! Wikia, don't you see how big wikis are moving because of this skin?''' This is the fifth of "Darthpedia has moved" comments. Happy birthday! Come on, Wikia, reply. --TheHomer 20:04, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Give us a choice. I thought wikia was a community, not a dictatorship --Kingcjc 20:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I think staff should separate pages with Staff Comments. Its hell going through 20 or more pages looking for their comments --TheMist 20:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I just feel like I should point out that we got one answer, the fixed width of articles thanks to Susan Taylor. Since it is on page 14 or 15, when I posted this comment, I'll put it here for everyone to read, rather than having people go through the pages.

"One of the main benefits of fixed width is that it allows improved compatibility with many screen sizes and resolutions and it also means that everyone is designing all aspects of content for the same number of pixels. Designing for fixed width allows everyone to see all the elements of a wiki including customized design and customized content accurately. In Monaco the way these elements are viewed can vary widely from monitor to monitor and fixed width helps resolve that issue."

So we have at least one serious answer to one of the commonly asked questions. I don't know about any of you, but that at least has said volumes more than previous postings on this topic.

EDIT: I sitll don't like the fixed width, and think it is way to small, but at least that said more than previous postings. I think Monaco has the right idea here, expand it to the full width of the viewing screen so text, pictures, and infoboxes don't get rammed together. Expand the width, is that so much to ask. The main pages are 960px, so that is what the articles should be at least. --Lancer1289 20:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * It also means that articles look cramped and ugly though. --Solar Dragon 20:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, but y make it Smaller? --AlienGamer 20:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the edit but my laptop's enter button is kind of sensative. As many of the people on the wiki I edit have found on on numerous occasions. But yes overall, fixed width is very bad as it rams things together. That doens't enhance features and makes them visable for all, it just takes them away by ramming it altogether and making it even harder to read. --Lancer1289 20:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because they want to and to annoy users. --Solar Dragon 20:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also that annoying right sidebar takes up a lot, a lot of space, and then blow it is just blank space. Long articles will have huge amounts of wasted space, so why have that sidebar at all? It is clear that very few people like it and it is also visually distracting from the article's content. I thought that was the whole point of an article, to present its content, not show a slideshow of all the images on the wiki, or to have a big sign for here's how many articles are here and their most recent editors. Monaco has this done nicely and I think that should stay. Still don't like the fixed width, but if Wikia is going to go with it, then they need to make it larger, or shrink the right sidebar, or even better, make it disapper altogether by making it optional. The 660px, or whatever it is with the sidebar takes up a lot of content space, so either make the right sidebar smaller, or expand content space. I'd say go with expanding content space as it would make things much easier to see. --Lancer1289 20:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * A good find Lancer1280. If fixed width is so great for displaying content, why doesn't Wikipedia use it?  It's only the 7th most popular site in the world.  You'd think they would have a pretty good handle on good design for content, eh?
 * Here's the real answer. Ads work best when they are in the "money" area of the screen, which is near the center.  I'm sure they studied the research.  Good luck putting images on articles now that they will be crushed by other wikia links and skyscraper ads. --Pagoda 20:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's the real answer. Ads work best when they are in the "money" area of the screen, which is near the center.  I'm sure they studied the research.  Good luck putting images on articles now that they will be crushed by other wikia links and skyscraper ads. --Pagoda 20:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Lancer1289: We've been putting a lot of out answers in the FAQ, because they tend to get somewhat lost when there are lots of comments. There's more on the fixed width, and other questions, here --Sannse 20:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

If Wikia is so set on limited width, would you tell us why it is the width it is? Why not make it 50 or 100px larger? I can live with it not being 100% of my monitor, but this is just too small. There is a middle ground here. Why this specific size and no negotiation or deviation away from it? --Yyp 20:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * IIRC its around 660px. No negotitation on it and I don't think they are going to change it. However I could be wrong, I'm still holding out hope that Wikia will acutally listen. --Lancer1289 20:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am not expecting them to negotiate. I would just like to know the reason for why they settled on that figure. Why 660 instead of 700 or 760? What is the reason we the community never got a say in it? --Yyp 20:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well we forget the padding of 10px on either side of the WikiaArticle and that box adverts are 300px, so this was the best way to not have advertisements appear within the WikiaArticle content minus the box below the categories. --Bluesonic43 20:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * And we're never going to get a say it in. Wikia is doing what they will and in the opinion of the other admin on the ME wiki, SpartHawg948, his comment is buried here somewhere, but we are loosing a lot of our automonomy with this, and that is what Wikia I thought was supposed to be about.
 * CLEARLY I was wrong about that. --Lancer1289 20:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * CLEARLY I was wrong about that. --Lancer1289 20:39, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with the image attribution; it's incredibly un-wiki-like. That issue aside, I don't like the page size being forced to be so tiny. Only seeing one paragraph at a time isn't very useful at all. Any chance that the fixed width used could be bigger? --The last username left 20:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I tried it with -moz-available and auto, but the WikiaArticle doesn't act right, and besides it would be allowed in your personal css =/ --Bluesonic43 20:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

As long as the image attribution can be turned off (by Special:Contact it seems now, rather than wiki-wide css/js files) then that's all my questions answered. --Nayayen 20:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I just have to say this as a Computer Science major and the initial web developer of the Mosinee City web site. If I'd had a choice, I would not have made Mosinee's site fixed-width during my internship with them. There's a reason that all browsers support a percentage. It helps keep formatting visually consistent and accessible. The new skin wastes a ton of potential article space, especially the sidebar. 660 pixels is a pittance. The placement of the sidebar on the right also makes it harder to read articles.

If ad space is really a concern, there's still no reason not to make the page a percentage width. All you need to do is make the MARGINS a fixed width, put the ads in there, keep a fixed width for the sidebar, and let the content dominate the rest of the page. It's a kinder solution that keeps accessibility intact and also allows for better content display. If people have to scroll too much, they'll go elsewhere and you're back at square one. --Bluestarultor 20:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * But then that takes away from ad space at the center. However that is a good alternative, maybe? --Lancer1289 20:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * It doesn't take anything away from the center. All it does is let the page content scale, rather than wasting a ton of space on empty margins.   If ads are going to be put in the center of the page, putting them in the content pane will actually give them MORE room. --Bluestarultor 20:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Nearly a 1000 complaints :P THink they'd do get a freakin clue already. --AlienGamer 20:32, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * More like 800, don't forget that a bunch are just "Hi" and "bye". <.< --Bluesonic43 20:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Over 1,000 now. Breaking it down to about 50 random entries by people jsut blogging and not about this topic, about 30 staff comments (with about 7 saying the same thing), about 25 comments froim people who acutally like it, so that leaves about 900 negative comments. I'm guessing at the amounts but I'd have to say its probably close. --Lancer1289 20:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I know other users have the option to change to Monobook. However, we have to think about the logged out users and how bad the wiki will look to them. They would expect a similar layout to Wikipedia, which it is not, and would get confused.

Think about that Wikia! --Solar Dragon 20:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC)