Forum:Free the Wikia

FREE ALL USERS UNDER 13 TO BE ABLE TO "USE" WIKIA!!! (I am over 13. I wanna free my wiki!) STOP THE UN-FREEDOM!


 * No, that breaks the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (aka COPPA). Wikia can't break federal law. If you have a problem with that, talk to Congress, not Wikia. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 00:03, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you mean Wikia not We, Michael. -- 00:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Whoops, it's fixed now. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 00:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Isn't the COPPA based in The USA and Europe? Cause I know people from Africa and Asia who do wiki.--Guyman

Wikia, Inc. was incorporated in the United States, so I think that it falls under US jurisdiction. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 13:54, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Isn't that unfair to people in Africa? DaHappyface ( Just Say Hi) ☺  04:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably. But US law is US law. -- S C  M  09:49, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm hoping Obama can fix this. The USA doesn't own any other places(besides territory) so they're are acting like dictators or empearor(excuse the spelling). Hopefully Obama can fix this. I met him during the campagin.--Happyface


 * I doubt that the President could change the COPPA. You have to consider over-protective parents who hate video games and the Internet; lobbyists and such are difficult for Congresspersons to deal with. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 23:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm starting to think that some wikis are completely made of kids(Spongebob Wiki)--happyface


 * I have a feeling that those laws will drop the activeness of the wikis way down... I know a guy who's under 13 with over 5000 edits: and he's an awesome editor. Unfortunately he was blocked because of COPPA... Dancing Penguin  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/clubpenguin/images/6/6c/Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 20:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * COPPA has been here since 1998, so I doubt that it'll cause any further drops in activity. Also, please refrain from giving out personal information about others; it's not yours to give out. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 23:50, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * More like those laws will just turn our kids into habitual liars. "How old are you?"  "Oh, I'm 21, wanna see my (fake) ID?" -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 18:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * At that point Wikia is no longer liable for what happens if they are lying about their age. I admit, this is a huge problem, although it is a much bigger problem is you are setting up a website that targets those under 13 than those who are over 13.  Besides, after a few years those who are younger do get older, while those who are older won't ever get younger.  For myself, I would find it amazing if you could have a 10 year old that could organize a coherent sentence and be able to compete against college graduates over content.  Most wiki contributors, from my experience, tend to be older teenagers and college students... with a smattering of older folks like myself who remember Ward's original wiki as a new plaything.  --Robert Horning 19:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I know some 11 year old who won 1st place in a Science Fair agaisnt junior high, high school, and college. He's my little bro.--Happyface
 * I don't know of any science fair competition that pits junior high students against college students on equal footings. I am calling this BS for this reason alone.  Don't misconstrue this as suggesting an eleven year old isn't capable of being intelligent and able to write effectively, but it takes time to develop such talents.  Also, this is an issue that time will solve on its own.  Two years from now, your "little bro" won't be eleven any more.
 * It becomes more of a problem when you hit the other end of the age curve and people tell you that you are too old that you start having problems that time only makes worse. --Robert Horning 14:38, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Then you've never been to Asia.--Happyface

I agree with Mariothemovie. Users under 13 should be able to edit in wikias. Why exacly can't these users edit? How many good (or bad) users could there be lying about their age just to edit? Dancing Penguin  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/clubpenguin/images/6/6c/Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 22:05, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This doesn't have anything to do with Wikia. It's breaks the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA). Wikia can't break federal law. There isn't anything you can do about it on a Wikia forum. You have to become a lobbyist and pressure the US government, not Wikia. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 00:28, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I doubt some teenagers can presure the government...unless they have guns.
 * That's the point I'm trying to make; this discussion isn't going to change federal law. There isn't anything you can do. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 01:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

This would be great in theory, but the law is the law. Of course, if we were talking about a wiki policy, then I would say that using wikia should be dictated by maturity, not age. However, if some kid comes and brags that he is under 13, then that counts as immature = block. Of course, if you think about it, if a parent lets their kid who's under 13 have free reign on the internet, wiki is their last concern. Laws like that are formed around lazy and uncaring parents; what a world we live in.   Creepydude Editz   Say Some'at Here!   04:16, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey! I live in Canada! Why does US law permit stuff in other countrys? Shouldent that be that countrys decision? User:99.252.106.94


 * Wikia's servers are hosted in the US, so they must comply with US law. --Azkar 17:19, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * But Angela(one of the founders) lived in Engalnd(or Aussie) at the time!!!! And the other founder lived in America, so the laws in the United States shouldn't abide at all! I've done research for days (yawn)--FREE THE WIKIA! DEMOLISH THE RULES! DO WHAT'S RIGHT


 * Like they said, the physical servers are located in US country. I have a web site too. My serveur is located in Canada so it's Canada law that I must comply with on my domain. The emplacement where the founders are living doesn't matter at all. It' where are located the computers with the data on their hard drive. — TulipVorlax 13:13, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe is US law not because of their data is there, but because the company is located there. I think there are servers located in Europe too. --Ciencia Al Poder (talk) -WikiDex 14:01, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow this feels like the biggest(or only) revolution in Wikia history! It ook slike the rebels r winning--Lawyer


 * You obviously never heard of Illogicopedia, Teletraan 1, or the Guild Wars wiki. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 14:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No, on wikia, not on other wikis. What happened on the Transformers Wiki?--Lawyer

All three wikis are or were formerly Wikia wikis. Teletraan 1 moved to the tfwiki.net a long time ago. I'm just saying your "This feels like the biggest (or only) revolution in Wikia history!" statement is totally false. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 18:21, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Michael - we prefer "Guildwiki" or "the guildwiki" as the guild wars wiki is a different wiki that sprouted up around the time of wikia's buyout of our server admin (who, I may add, just to continue the argument - did not contribute much to the actual wiki, he just ran the servers and ran away with the cash) RT  07:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I'm not too familiar with the "Guildwiki". I only know about Gravewit and the former "GameWikis" from administrating the OblivioWiki. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 00:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The wiki about Guild Wars on Gamewikis is/was GuildWiki. The "Guild Wars Wiki" refers to the official one owned by Anet that Gravewit had no direct involvement in.  Just FYI (-:  -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 01:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There already was an english wikia about guildwars when i founded the french one long before the move of GuildWiki. But this is off topic. — TulipVorlax 14:54, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for signing to free Happyface from his block. I know him in real life, he's my classmate we did our 7th grade science project together. We share the same IP for some reason...--Lawyer(not)

Looks like 33 signatures still isn't enough... but it's something. Dancing Penguin  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/clubpenguin/images/6/6c/Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 00:39, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 35 signatures now. Dancing Penguin  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/clubpenguin/images/6/6c/Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 01:16, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Happy Face
The link to the forum to help free Happyface


 * While I would normally think of this as linkspam, it is at least relevant to the point of this topic so far as it is about somebody supposedly under the age of 13. BTW, I don't think a petition of this nature is going to change the minds of the Wikia staff.  They are bound by law here, particularly for somebody with "sysop" privileges (is that what a "co-webmaster" means?)  If this person is genuinely in 7th Grade, it is just a matter of a short period of time before he is 13.  Club Penguin will still be around for more than a year, although his interest in playing that game and documenting it (for the wiki) may change in that amount of time.  I'm sorry if his supporters think this is unfair, but this isn't the proper place to complain about this issue if you want genuine change to happen.


 * Write to your legislative representatives (members of parliament, congress, etc.) about the topic and why you think it is wrong to have laws like this. Write a well-formed letter to the editor in your local newspaper.  There are things you can do, and you might be surprised to learn that thinking adults will listen to legitimate and well formed opinions of kids who think they are being treated unfairly.  All adults were pre-teens once upon a time, and really do understand what kids like this are going through.  They also, unfortunately, understand the dangers you guys are facing when you ignore these rules as well.  --Robert Horning 09:57, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

A co-webmaster is a "site leader". And that person is 13, turning 14 soon but lied because he was ashamed of playing Club Penguin with that age. It's not usual to see 13-year-olds playing Club Penguin so the fact that he lied is completly understandable for me. And 35 signatures won't probably do anything but the important thing is that we tried. I created the "petition" if you must know. Dancing Penguin  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/clubpenguin/images/6/6c/Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 18:15, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

READ CONSTITUTION
Why the hell is the US enforcing a law that breaks their own constitution? That summed it up. -- Zapwire <font style="font-size:11px;">(talk · contribs) 11:21, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Lol, explain yourself. <font color="8B4513">Dancing <font color="#006400">Penguin  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/clubpenguin/images/6/6c/Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 11:33, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think he means the first amendment, a law limiting people's freedom of speech <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  12:36, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Why would we/Wikia know? Ask "the US". 13:48, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

This law does not violate the United States Constitution in any way, shape, or form. If you’re going to argue that it violates the First Amendment, then consider that there have been limits put on free speech before, and those are legal limits. There are certain things you cannot do or say if it becomes an issue to public safety. Saying “I’m 11 years old” on the internet, where there are predators searching for people who would do just that, is a public safety issue, because countless underage girls (and even some boys) have ended up meeting with predators who manipulated them into meeting with them. Some of those children didn’t exactly meet a happy fate. It’s sad, but it’s reality. COPPA was passed by Congress and signed in 1998 by President Clinton in order to protect children’s privacy and safety. In the nearly 12 years since it’s been in place, not a single case about it has been brought to the Supreme Court.

Now be aware, COPPA doesn’t forbid someone under 13 from using a website that falls under United States jurisdiction (like Wikia Inc., as it’s located in the United States). It simply says you can’t state your personal information. If you state you’re under 13 years old, a website technically has to block you or, at the very least, delete all revisions of that personal information. The child wouldn’t be the one to get into any potential legal trouble if they said they were under 13. The website would be the one to get into trouble if they knew that a user was under 13 but continued to let them use the website anyway with personal information still up, etc.

Regardless, debating this here is like arguing in a Wikia forum that the sun should lower its temperature a bit because it’s just too dang hot. You can argue in this forum until you’re blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that Wikia can’t do anything to change this. If you have a serious issue with COPPA, write to your local congressman. If you don’t live in the United States, write to your country’s embassy and ask them to pass it along to the appropriate congressman, or send the letter directly to the appropriate congressman if you want to. That’s really all you can do, because Wikia can’t do anything about the law. Wikia is not Congress. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) 17:53, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well said, not being american I have no idea about the constitution and only really know about the 1st amendment (free speech). This whole matter is stupid, as wikia can't change a thing - if a user doesn't state (or lies about) their age, then there's nothing the site can do to know about it, they have to trust the user. <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  20:59, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much. There's no way we could know if you were lying about your age either. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) 21:08, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Side-note: I'd recommend reading up on the US Constitution as a self-history lesson. It more than likely influenced your country's modern govt. structure somehow. =) -- <font color="Green">LordTBT <font color="Green" size="2">Talk! 06:43, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Interesting... I admit I have removed comments like "I am eleven years old" from Wikia many times. Is it wrong to do that without reporting these cases to the staff? <font color="8B4513">Dancing <font color="#006400">Penguin  (Talk!) (Contribs) (Edits) 10:23, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Nope, you're doing just fine! Local wiki administrators should be the one handling things like this, not the community team. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) 17:17, November 7, 2009 (UTC)