User talk:Toughpigs

'''Please post new messages at the top of the page. Thanks!'''

Serious question here
Hi Danny, or Toughpigs, whichever it is,

First off, my header is a lie, it's two serious questions. Namely about the new style. I've posted it here rather than the forum, because I'm more interested in a direct reply. What will happen here? Where will the table go? Second question: where will the table go if it's here? Thanks,

15:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Someday I'm gonna make a sig :)


 * Hi! I'm happy to answer your questions. You can also use Communitytest to experiment with the new format, and see how it'll work.


 * In general -- most article pages will have a 300x250 block ad at the top right of the page. The ad will be floated on the right the same way that an image is -- so it'll push down stuff that's floated on the right, like pictures or infoboxes. So the infobox on the Arrille page would appear under the ad. Check out this page for an example.


 * For articles that have a table across the top, the ad will appear as a leaderboard banner instead, so it won't break the table. You can see an example here.


 * Main pages are a special case -- those will need special column tags to include the ads in the table space. Don't worry about that right now... Someone from the Gaming team will come to your wiki over the next couple weeks to help with that part. For now, the format change that launches on Tuesday will only affect article pages. Let me know if you have other questions! -- Danny (talk ) 15:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I do, CommunityTest doesn't seem to have ads (At least for me). Plus what would happen if I put the command
 * Would that cover the ad? (I'm actually trying to figure away to get round having the ad, no help fix it, but I suppose that it'll have the same effect.. 16:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Would that cover the ad? (I'm actually trying to figure away to get round having the ad, no help fix it, but I suppose that it'll have the same effect.. 16:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You may have AdBlock on, which is suppressing the ads on Communitytest. If you want to see what the pages will look like, you'll have to turn that off.


 * I'm not sure what you mean about getting round having the ad... Are you trying to disable ads for your site? -- Danny (talk ) 16:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * As for the AdBlock, I'm not sure what that is.


 * As for the getting around the ads, look at the code I put in my reply. If I put that on a page, it gets a large black block in the top right corner. Also as I've defined Position:Absolute, it won't move if something else is there, it'll simply paste over whatever's there. As an example, I'll put it on your talk page Only Temporarily You can remove it when you reply. 16:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I see what you mean. Why would you want to do that? -- Danny (talk ) 17:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Because it would cover the ad. 20:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, we can't let you do that. Wikia needs advertising in order to survive; that's how we make money and stay in business. If you were to cover up the ads on your site, then you're essentially stealing from Wikia -- using our service for free when you should be paying for it.


 * Any attempt to cover or remove the advertising on Wikia is a violation of our terms of service. The code that creates that box would be removed from the wiki. -- Danny (talk ) 22:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

(Outdent) I just thought you may want to alert the people over at err "Ad placement?" so they can figure a way past this. The black block could only be placed in the content area, so I they were to change the top of the content area like so:


 * 1)                                     #    Ad
 * 1)                                     #    Ad
 * 1)                                     #    Ad

Then no one would be able to cover the ad unless they had direct access to the pages HTML source. 07:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood you. I thought you were trying to cover up the ad so that nobody can see it? -- Danny (talk ) 17:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna put this into bulletin points to help get the point across.
 * When I saw that Wikia was planning to put ads onto content pages, the first thing I did was think about how to get around this; as is human nature.
 * I came up with an idea of doing so, namely adding an immovable black block where the ad would be.
 * I decided that I might as well report this to Wikia, so that they might find a solution earlier rather than later, even though they would probably find a solution anway.
 * I wasn't sure who to contact on this matter, and as you're the "Community guy", I decided to contact you.
 * Hence evolved this rather long-winded conversation.

Does that more or less clarify the matter? 19:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, it does clarify it -- thank you! I'm sorry, I completely misunderstood your intentions.


 * You make a really good point -- that is a way that people can try to block the advertisements. Our solution to this, essentially, is to tell people that blocking the ads is a violation of our terms of service. If people take a step like this, then we'll go to the wiki and ask them to stop. If an individual is persistent in violating our terms of service, then we may have to go to the step of blocking that person from the site.


 * Obviously, that's not something that we'd want to do. The people who are most likely to create a workaround like this are the people who care the most about their wiki. That's why I think it's good for everybody involved to act in good faith. -- Danny (talk ) 20:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

HEy
Hello I'm beta fleet and my wiki has not been put in the spotlight yet and where nexts on the list for a month now (Benjeman Washington 17:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC))

Thanks
Thank you for pointing that out to me. I was going to fix it anyways, but since you helped me, I don't have to anymore.

Thanks,

P.S. I also dunno if I am allowed to do that with templates, but you can decide.


 * No problem! -- Danny (talk ) 14:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Heeeeey.
Er, couple of problems with the upcoming big switch over on Teletraan-1. I can certainly appreciate the help you gave our community during the migration and if it feels like I am pinning this on you please let me put that fear to rest. I fully believe you gave us the best information you had at the time, and I'm not part of the admin staff at Teletraan so I can't speak for the wiki as such. However, I am seeing a bit of frustration over on our community portal regarding this, as well as the fact that this announcement touts us as a success story for the new skin when we're still not all that certain it had that positive an impact (BotCon is always a big flurry of activity following, as it reveals a lot of new Transformers products which nearly all need new articles).
 * 1) It borks up our traditional page layout something fierce. I can tell you probably sympathize, because the Muppet Wiki uses a similar layout of main image in the upper right which under the new system gets shoved downwards in a most unseemly way.
 * 2) A lot of the adjustments you encouraged us to make during our initial switch to Monaco... well... it just seems as if we ended up preparing for the wrong version of the skin. We cooked up a new masthead for the occasion and suddenly we're back to the old masthead. It seems like a lot of wikis were pushed to be early adopters, and now the new version of the skin seems to cater more to the stragglers, which somewhat penalizes those wikis that were given the hard-sell to forge ahead.
 * 3) I personally really don't quite get the logic on the ad placement. First we were told that the right-column skyscraper ads weren't selling so well, which is what necessitated the top banner ads. We were told that the top banner ads were what advertisers wanted, so we went along with it only to find out that, again, we were essentially preparing for the wrong version of the skin. A skin that, very soon, will be mandatory.

The sum total of this is that it does feel a bit like we went forward in good faith but were a bit left in the lurch as the standard for the new skin was changed. We could use a bit of help/feedback on this if you have the time.

Thanks in advance.--RosicrucianTalk 23:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yup. I hear you. I'll respond on the wiki... -- Danny (talk ) 00:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Request for adminship La Cité (http://villevirtuelle.wikia.com/wiki/Accueil)
Hello, I am Timo and I gladly the adminship and bureaucrat of La Cité would get, that is, as it happens, inactive, and I have the rights necessary these wiki new live to insufflate. There is no active admins around so I wanted to become one and start working on it. There are two administrators, Oostwesthoesbes and Athyndmion de LaCité (He's very inactief)

Thanks, Greenday2 16:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hellow? Greenday2 10:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Anonymous Edits
Hi Danny. This is User:Sarrc, the only active admin from the Transformers Fanon wiki. I remember you saying something on the Transformers wiki about disabling anonymous edits, and I think that's something we'd be interested in implimenting. Our wiki is very small, and only has one or two editors at a time, so it's hard to form any real consensus, but we have NEVER had a positive experience with an IP editor. With a fanon wiki there are no anonymous elves coming in and correcting spelling and grammar in the night, people are writing fan fiction they want credit for. On a fanon wiki IPs are pretty much just vandals, and people who make very fast crappy articles. It's impossible to talk to these people, because their IP may change the next day, and they never see the three warnings you leave not to change other people's fan fiction. I think turning off anonymous edits would be something that would fit the overall theme and mission of the site. Thanks. --Sarrc 14:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the floating-IP thing can be a real problem. I'll go visit your site and help you out. I'll see you over there... -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 14:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Domains
Everything else currently brewing aside, I and the other admins of the Creatures Wiki, and others are still waiting for a reasonable explanation as to why Wikia has claimed creatureswiki.com and calls this a "routine" thing that doesn't merit discussion with the community. This domain name has value to us and we want to talk to someone about why Wikia thinks this is an OK thing to do. As GR says, this seems roughly equivalent to you starting a site on some hosting company and finding out later that they bought the most relevant domain for your site, claiming that it was to "prevent it from being bought by squatters," and then saying that you don't actually own the site. Can you please talk to us honestly about this or find someone else who is willing to? *This* is the thing I am angriest about. The ad changes are seriously annoying to us, but the acquisition of relevant domains like this one just seems really underhanded and smacks of extortion. ElasticMuffin 19:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Unless you don't get talk page notices for some odd reason or have been too busy (in which case I offer a full apology), I am having a very hard time believing you have not seen this message yet given the several messages you've written elsewhere in the intervening time. By all means contact me in the IRC channel or on any of my Wikia talkpages if you change your mind. ElasticMuffin 22:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry -- I'm actually writing a lengthy response to your question, and I'm getting distracted by pings in other places. I'll post my response in a couple minutes, and you'll see why it's been taking me so long. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, here we go. This question isn't actually something that I have personal experience with -- I didn't know about it until you guys brought it up this weekend. But I can tell you what I think is going on.


 * I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding that's led to this concern. Apparently, your view is that there are two separate entities -- "Creatures Wiki" and "Wikia" -- which have different interests and may in fact be opposed to each other. Our operating assumption is that Creatures Wiki is a part of the larger Wikia community; every wiki is. We've been doing more lately to try to encourage people to see every wiki as linked aspects of a larger project -- spotlights, hubs, sites like Gaming.wikia. The more interconnection there is, the better it is for the entire community.


 * Now, I understand that this attitude has been evolving over time. When Creatures Wiki was founded in 2004, Wikicities was more of a loose aggregation of unrelated sites. There were so few topics at the time that there wasn't much cross-over between the communities. As the number of wikis has grown in the last couple of years, the connections between wikis have become more complex and interesting. There are a lot of people who contribute to multiple wikis -- often with one "home wiki", and several secondary wikis.


 * If Wikicities wikis were like independent city-states, then the modern Wikia is more like a nation of connected cities and towns. In human history, that kind of increase in organizational complexity fuels innovation and positive growth. When there are more connections between cities, then there's better communication, and increased trade. A good idea can start in one town and spread to others.


 * So my point is that Wikia considers the people of Creatures Wiki to have shared interests and a common identity with the people from Bionicle Wiki and Narutopedia and Vintage Dress Patterns. If we don't -- if we see every wiki as its own island, separate and inviolable -- then we're denying everyone the opportunity to grow into a larger and more complex meta-collaboration. We have a shared user database, so you can log in on one wiki and stay logged in wherever you go. We have spotlights and hubs to help people navigate from one wiki to another. If you're still seeing Creatures Wiki as an independent city-state, then you're missing out on a lot.


 * So let's get to the main issue -- the domain names. What happened was that we started seeing occasional people buying domain names and competing with Wikia wikis -- stuff like Wookieepedia.org, which is amusing but kind of annoying if people go there and think that that's the real Wookieepedia. Even more annoying, somebody bought Muppetwiki.com and turned it into a link farm.


 * It's fairly inexpensive to buy domain names, so Wikia took the step of buying up some domain names, to make sure that we didn't see any more Muppetwiki.coms. I don't know why they don't redirect -- it probably just didn't occur to somebody. This wasn't a big project or anything; just something that someone thought would be helpful.


 * So the question is: Will Wikia give these domains "back" to the community? There are a couple odd things about that question. One is that Wikia didn't take anything that anybody owned. Anybody can buy a domain name -- the people who made Muppetwiki.com did. I assume that you didn't buy Creatureswiki.com years ago because you figured that Creatures Wiki was part of Wikia, and you didn't need to spend the money on a domain name.


 * The other thing that's weird is the question: Which community? You're implying that there is a specific set of individuals with a legal and moral right to own the domain name. Who are those individuals?


 * Sgeo, the founder of Creatures Wiki and presumably the person who invented the name, hasn't been active on the wiki since the end of 2006, with a couple more edits in 2007. There are ten people listed as sysops and bureaucrats, some of whom haven't edited since 2005. Of the top 50 contributors to Creatures Wiki, four have made edits in the last month. So who's the rightful owner of that domain name? The original founder? The top ten all-time contributors? The four contributors who are currently active? If somebody new comes along today and makes some edits, do they get a share?


 * So that's the best response that I can come up with. If you want to get into more details about how to buy a domain name from Wikia, then I'll hook you up with someone who can give you more information. Feel free to e-mail me at toughpigs at gmail.com, and I'll connect you. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, you may want to look at the Ownership policy, which says, "The wikis are owned by the communities. No one user owns any wiki on Wikia. Founders are those who requested a wiki be created, but ownership of that wiki resides with the community as a whole, not only with the founder." That's been a Wikia policy since January 2005, and I assume that people are aware of it. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 23:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That is not really applicable when Wikia grabs domains that are relevant and valuable to a Wiki. But anyway, thanks, and check your e-mail.  :)  ElasticMuffin 00:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ElasticMuffin has things mostly covered here, but I thought I should note again - since it still seems to be a common topic of confusion - that there are laws relating to the gaining of exclusive rights in marks. For services, it is those who take steps to advertise the service to the target market who gain rights to its use for that purpose. This makes sense, because it is they who is doing the work of establishing its meaning. Wikia has tended to leave this to the founding members of the site, and so it is the founding members who (normally) would gain the most right in the marks - not because they came up with it, but because they promoted it.
 * Yes, anyone can buy a domain name, in that there will be nothing to stop them; but that does not mean they gain the legal right to use it in a confusing manner, or to withhold it from those who have established a mark in the hope of profit. I hope Wikia understands that more clearly going forwards.
 * As for which community, that's easy. I was the person most responsible for promoting the Creatures Wiki. Indeed, it's almost the perfect example: I posted most of the stuff I'd done on Wikia itself, and was later asked by Wikia to flesh it out for what became Help:Attracting Contributors. There was also a certain presentation I made right in front of several members of the community team. It's hard to see how Wikia could have been more informed of who was establishing the site - as a mark, or otherwise. If there's any doubt, a quick glance at Wikia's stats would be sufficient - it's quite likely to be either the person with 37% of the edits, or the three active editors with over 50%.
 * On a more general note, what has caused some of the tension is Wikia's use of the word "community" to include people - such as themselves - who really aren't a significant part of it as far as the locals are concerned. I know Wikia feels differently, but looking at the stats, it's hard to argue that they really participate that much on individual sites. Now, there are a huge number of wikis here, and Wikia has more important things to do, which is fine. But Wikia shouldn't be surprised the communities find arguments based on "Wikia knows best for the community" somewhat specious, given that they haven't actually spent that much time in the places they want to change. It's rather like someone coming along and redesigning your front page because they felt they knew better how it should go . . . I tried to learn a lesson there, and I think perhaps Wikia needs to as well. --GreenReaper(talk) 07:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Laurence, I can't comment on legal issues; it's not my expertise. I know that you're talking to Gil over e-mail. If you have any legal questions, please address them to him. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 13:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry to jump in here - someone drew my attention to the discussion here. The original comment's scrolled off into the archive on Wikia's New Style and I didn't want to repost there since it isn't directly related, but I wonder - what about the people who just want to provide wikis for their communities and don't want to be dragged kicking and screaming into complexmetacollaborationdom? Is this just not the place for them?


 * It seems like Wikia's working to impose its vision of community on the many communities it serves, and then going ahead and using that imposed concept of community to justify acting as gatekeeper in regard to things like domains.


 * I had written this before you added the additional about buying a domain name from Wikia, but in that case, I guess my question would be "for how much" - i.e., would it be a commercial transaction, or are we just talking about a token "this is what we paid for it" price? I appreciate that that's probably not a question you can answer, though. --Silvermink 02:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how I can answer your first question. People are welcome to contribute to wikis on Wikia, but they don't have to. I'm not sure where the kicking and screaming comes into it.


 * I don't know a lot about the domain names, but from what I know, we don't actually own that many. Which wiki are you concerned about? -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 02:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, the "kicking and screaming" was in terms of having a long-standing wiki on Wikia, but then having community imposed; as you said, there's then a choice not to edit on Wikia, which kind of translates to "our way or the highway" in my mind. I'm not concerned about any wiki in particular (though I myself am a frequent user of WikiFur and WoWWiki), just about general issues. --Silvermink 03:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Again, I'm sorry... I'm not sure how to respond. I know that GreenReaper has been talking to Gil about WikiFur, so GR is probably the person to go to about WikiFur issues. Kirkburn knows a lot about what's happening with WoWWiki. Beyond that, if you've got any questions, I'd be happy to help. -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 03:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Whoa
Special:Editcount/Toughpigs. Do you edit in your sleep? -- 02:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm engaged in a cut-throat competition for the All-Time Most Edits on Wikia. I'm the only contestant. :) -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 04:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And I thought I had a lot. :) -- 00:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you're still a rookie. Keep working on it, youngster. :) -- <font color="Blue">Danny (<font color="Blue" size="1">talk ) 00:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Name Change
Danny,

May I ask a name change for Mario RPG Wiki to Mario RPGs Wiki? Mario RPG Wiki sounds as if the wiki is only about the game Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, when it actually is about the Mario RPG series.

Thank you,

Username:

Hello
Hey Danny!

I just visited the Polish Lemony Snicket Wiki and it was totaly abandoned. I would like to adopt the wiki and then rename it to "W Lemony Snicket Wiki" (already translated into Polish). It would also be great if you could help me talk [http://www.wikia.com/wiki/c:fr.snicket:User:Docteur_Orwell. Docteur Orwell] at the French "A Wiki of Unfortunate Events" into changing the name of her wiki to the new Lemony Snicket Wiki name translated to French (Le Wiki Lemony Snicket). I told her on her talk page that I would wait for a response from her before I changed the name, so I just want you to help me convince her. If you need to, use Google Translate.

Thanks,

Music Community
I was wondering if i could discuss with you some things to do with the music community, the music wiki and other wiki things, but it seems a bit too long to deal with all at once on a talkpage. Do you use skype? Anarchyuk(talk) 17:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Archive

 * User talk:Toughpigs/Archive