Forum:Death to IE6!

Norwegian Websites Declare War on IE 6

An employee of finn.no (the norwegian equivalent of eBay) recently suggested that some large norwegian websites should work together in trying to eradicate IE6. A lot of them joined, including some of the largest online news sites. Now they're trying to recruit people from international sites to help. So now i'm bringing the news to wikia. I tried testing this on a page on webcomics, but it didn't work. Is that because of wikia's HTML limitations? If so, can it be changed? 15:18, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Code to display IE6 message
This is a simple message that should display only for people using IE6. However, as mentioned above, this doesn't seem to work on wikia.

More info

 * IE6 - Do NOT want!, an informational wiki.
 * google tanslation of the original finn.no article
 * source of the English version of the notice

Discussion
So what do you think? 15:18, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Really, you can't tell people which browser to use; it's their choice. Also, this message would annoy long-time users and new editors alike. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 15:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it wouldn't have to be permanent (the original sites are/were just going to keep it for a week or so). One of the sites using it also had the option to close the message (I can see if I find it again). There are so many advantages with upgrading (both for the users who get a faster, more secure browser, and for web designers who won't have to spend time trying to get their pages to work in IE6) that it might be worth annoying some people. 16:03, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Should the message also mention Google Chrome? --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 16:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I can't see why it shouldn't. I just copied it from another site. 16:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Others use a yellow bar at the top of the page. Less intrusive, maybe --Ciencia Al Poder (talk) -WikiDex 16:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There isn't any wiki code i know to permit display of a message only to certains user agents. Might be possible through JS. The message could be inserted in the site notice... — TulipVorlax 20:10, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * But i dont think this is a good idea; advertisers on Wikia might not like this. — TulipVorlax 20:11, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Why wouldn't ad agencies be happy? 20:36, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe not Advertisers, but because of Terms of use. It could be interpreted as an "advertising", and isn't allowed to put ads other than those provided by wikia. --Ciencia Al Poder (talk) -WikiDex 20:40, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, now I see what you mean. Well, if wikia doesn't like it they should say so. But really, is encouraging people to upgrade their outdated software really advertising? I don't know about "recommending" other browsers, but at least IE7 should go clear of this. 21:05, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Regarding TulipVorlax's post above, whatever you put inside (HTML thing) only shows up in IE6. However, wikia/mediawiki has limited which HTML you can and can't use (except in the source, which only they can edit).  21:39, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I already know this (i use that on all my websites when needed) but like i said, you can't modify the files of the mediawiki sofware used on Wikia so regulars users and local sysops can't do this. — TulipVorlax 03:53, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, this is pretty funny. If a user has IE6 then they have to read that.  More serious rating anti-browser stuff.  Why didn't they list IE7? Very funny. Thanks, TimeMaster Talk Main Contribs 01:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think telling people to switch browsers is essentially flamebaiting. People have preferences, and some people would prefer IE6 over other browsers for some reason. And a percentage of that group will not be happy that you are telling them to switch. -- S C  M  09:47, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Trust me, nobody uses IE6 because they have tried other browsers and preferred it. They simply don't know any better. 14:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * For me it was more of a funny choice i did not want to try any other browser not even IE7, but i wanted to sort my bookmarks by groups inside the folder and after a couple of months a friend told me that FF could do it so thats what make me change forgetting IE6 but many dont know, they dont have their automatic update on, hell i know people that still uses windows95!!. The wording its using that msg its partially advertising, just saying something simple The/Your current web explorer it is not compatible with certain features of this web page please upgrade but still will take time, the best options its to truly turn it obsolete and thats by restraining access by truly not supporting it --Cizagna (Talk) Central Dofus 03:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay I've separated the part of this discussion that stops talking about a message to IE6 users to its own section.
 * I don't see how this message is advertising. Think about when the world switched away from leaded gasoline. A majority of people agreed that leaded gasoline was bad for you, but it took some warnings and eventual government action to get people to switch. What if the government never made people switch? Would that have made leaded gasoline good for you? No. MS doesn't want to make people stop using IE6, but that doesn't mean it isn't horrible browser. MS likes people to continue to use IE6, because it is part of both a positive MS business direction and a cultural imperative. I worked at MS for 7 years (okay really 4 years, but I was technically an MS employee from the start at a subsidiary) and it was obvious that MS prefers everyone rather use bad MS technology than anything else.
 * MS only prefers people switch from IE6, if they switch to IE#. Otherwise MS could give a crap about user experience, making web designers happy or competitive features. -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 1:23 PM PST 20 Mar 2009

Where the discussion went off track...

 * They simply don't know any better.
 * Like many people in the world that still continues to polute the earth with their car instead of using others less polluting transportations mean. But it's their right to do so. — TulipVorlax 05:34, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really. That's why there are emissions controls on how much pollution cars are allowed to produce. Still, I don't think people using IE6 is / should be a major problem for Wikia. Exactly what features does Wikia have that can't be used properly in IE6 at the moment? I'm all for people using better software, but blocking access outright or having annoying popups and banners is the wrong way to go about it. That's very Microsoft-like. If and when Wikia starts incorporating features that aren't usable in IE 6, then a generic "Classic" version should be made available, like is done with GMail. Making it more difficult to access information is contrary to what Wikia should be trying to do. Heck, you can even edit Wikia in a text-mode browser, and at least view it in an ancient browser like Arachne. And those support far fewer web standards than IE6. inclusivedisjunction 02:43, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you misundertand me about cars and pollution.
 * There's just far too much people in the world actually that are using their car to go to work while they could use subway and bus. I dont have a car and will never have one. And i dont undertand why people are affraid of walking a few meter between the bus stop to their work. So i think they're just stupid people like the one's who are still using IE6. Even my aunt that know almost nothing about computers has IE7 on it. So i really think that no one should care about IE6 users anymore. I dont. I think most IE6 users are people who arent able to apply updates to their computer "for some reason" (i wont say it!). — TulipVorlax 08:38, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * For those of us who do not live in a major metropolitan area with convenient public transportation, cars are the only viable option. For companies and schools still using Windows 2000 with a brain-dead tech (and I've seen quite a few), IE6 is the only option. You can complain all you want about "stupid people", but denying their access to information (or a job) because they don't have the same opportunities as you is asinine. inclusivedisjunction 05:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh really ? Win 2000 dont have acces to a better version of IE ? I never had Win200 and dont have acces to it, so i couldn't know that. I'm not sure why the tech dont let his people have Firefox or Opera then. He call himself a good tech ?
 * On a side note, i just installed DirectX 10 on XP so maybe there's a way to get IE7 for Win2000 ? Or maybe not. Maybe some day i'll have to reinstall my computer for having tried things...
 * About car and pollution, evidently, i'm not talking about places where others mean of transportation aren't as accessible than in a city. I live in a big city (Montréal) and everyday, thousand of people comes in alone in their car instead of using bus and subway. Not only that. Each day there's hundred of people who are waiting for something in their parked car leaving the motor functionning more than 10 minutes (and often a lot more) because polluting is a right.
 * — TulipVorlax 06:23, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope. IE6 SP1 was the last version for Windows 2000. The tech (I guess I should call him the "network administrator", though he pretty much had to do everything) at the high school I went to was pretty incompetent. All of the computers had either IE or some ancient version of Netscape. Maybe he was just overworked, but he never tried to move to a different web browser, new version of Windows, or even replace the doddering NetWare server the computers all connected to. The few students who owned Flash drives often used Firefox on the machines, but this wasn't an easy option on the machines that ran Windows 98. By the way, I graduated high school in 2006, and I believe he only just retired last year, so this situation is likely still ongoing. As far as "hacks" and bypasses to use IE7, I have heard of a couple for the rendering engine itself, but not the interface, and it was never stable. Nor would such a "backwards" organization be likely to roll it out, anyway. inclusivedisjunction 06:48, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I "graduate from high school" 15 years ago and we didn't have internet access in public school back then (or at least in the school i was going).
 * It's certain bigs sites like Wikia still need to make so IE6 can still browse it but my personnal websites aren't anything that big so that's why i dont care. I dont really mind that you care and try to make Wikia care a bit more.
 * — TulipVorlax 09:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's sad how off track this discussion got. -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 1:12 PM PST 20 Mar 2009

Well, you have nothing to worry about
I believe IE8 should be released some time soon. And that the upgrade will be mandatory. --LordTBT Talk! 17:50, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Where's your source of that? 10:58, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't suprise me at all.
 * I can't count on two hand the number of times we were force to upgrade Messenger.
 * But in that case, how can they force it ?
 * I deactivate automatic updates because i want to filter things that M$ is often trying to force on us.
 * (And some other reasons.)
 * I dont think that IE7 could suddently stop working.
 * — TulipVorlax 12:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Source: --LordTBT  Talk! 23:05, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Bleh, IE in general is horrible. I think I'll be keeping my Firefox 3 even if IE8 is a compulsory upgrade, thanks.
 * Besides, if the IE8 beta was anything to go by, it's worse than IE7. -- S C  M  21:15, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ummm, LordTBT, I think the request was for a source that confirms an IE8 upgrade will be mandatory. Your source says no such thing (it in fact says that the upgrade will be optional). So the assertion that the release of IE8 will somehow solve the problem of people using IE6 is not only misleading and nonsensical, but also likely just not true. -- Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 1:15 PM PST 20 Mar 2009

Kirkburn says...
This is a plea: if you have the ability, get anyone and everyone you know to upgrade away from IE6 (and IE7) to a better browser, be that IE8, Firefox or whatever. Speaking from my capacity as a product manager, the sooner we can drop support for IE6 the better. It is a massive pain to support :( Fortunately, the numbers are certainly swinging the right way, but the sooner - the better! IE8 has excellent CSS 2.1 support, which is especially great for us.

However, I do not suggest any obnoxious coding or sitenotices to do so - that's often just annoying to users, especially if their hand is forced by being at a place of work (who browses Wikia at work? I'm sure no-one does...). Gentle prods and spreading of the word is the way to do it :) 09:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)