Forum:Help with New Monaco changes

Safari
Maybe with the new change you can figure out why Wikia pages no longer work on Safari? 23skidoo 17:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What kind of trouble are you having on Safari? I just looked at some wikis using Safari, and I don't see anything different. -- Danny (talk ) 17:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

GAH!
Why can't I set the Club Penguin Wiki's standard to Monobook! MONOBOOK!!!!! When the Monaco becomes standard, will it kill the Monobook?! The Club Penguin Wiki has been in Monobook for years, and any other skin looks really bad (trust me, I've seen it). Monaco may be "the wave of the future", but is it possible for Club Penguin Wiki to stay in the past? -- User:TurtleShroom


 * Users will still be able to use Monobook as their own personal skin, but the default skin for all wikis will be Monaco. It's definitely hard -- a lot of people are really attached to Monobook, and don't want it to change. -- Danny (talk ) 18:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * So, is there some way to change it for an individual wiki? Also, the Monaco is going to be very annoying for the Club Penguin Wiki's users, some who have edited on Monobook for years, and since practically everything will be thrown this way or that, it will be tough for the old users to keep up. Also, you said it yourself that the advertisements will be on the right side of the page. Are you aware that on the CPW, almost every ding-dong image is on the right side?! The advertisements would push images far below their intended level.


 * Our wiki has taken years to reach its level of quality, and if Monaco is installed as default, we would have to literally rearrange the entire site just to go along with it! That would look AWFUL on Monobook! Are you also aware that Monaco does not even use the standard MediaWiki Sidebar?! IT HAS ITS OWN, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! There is a reason that Wikipedia uses Monobook, you know. They know that it is the easiest to use, and just look that their success! It's the largest encyclopedia on the earth! You claim that nobody knows an edit button exists... how can they not?! IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE WIKI LOGO!


 * Furthermore, I feel that the "New Look" is more directed to the advertisers and not the users. See this page for tons of reasons why the community is against this mandatory overide. I myself am an administrator and beaurocrat, and I can understand how you want to help all of the wikis, but there are so many now that you can't just make a "one size fits all" edit and make each community adjust to the new upgrade. Almost every wiki staff member I have seen has been a great help to both experts and beginners, making Wikia a better place to host an editable database. The staff are great, and I do not want to leave the community just because of some advertisemnt. Many wikis agree with this statement.


 * After all, in today's society, if they don't like it, they will leave. I'm not going to leave, but I have a feeling that less persistent users will.


 * Your upgrade seems to benifit the big wikis over the small ones. The screenshots show huge wikis like the Mupphets, and does not even mention what the advertisements will do ot the little wikis. All of your screenshots show the Mupphet Wiki.


 * Finally, could you possibly but that huge advertisement under an article? People will stil see it if they want to see the whole page... or better yet, but a skinny banner like the "Ads by Google" shown here!


 * Please consider these and other changes shown here and on this page before overiding the Monobook. It ahs stood the test of time!


 * Sincerely,
 * [[Image:TurtleShroom.PNG|left|thumb|[[User:TurtleShroom|TurtleShroom]] Was Here!]] Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! :) :) 18:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * @ Danny: "Also, Monobook will have the same ads as Monaco will. The right sidebar on Monobook will go away, and Monobook will have the in-article ads. Monobook and Monaco will be the same ad-wise." Good job annoying your communities for no reason!--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 18:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You were not talking to me when you said that, were you? I was just stating my opinion.
 * [[Image:TurtleShroom.PNG|left|thumb|[[User:TurtleShroom|TurtleShroom]] Was Here!]] Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! :) :) 19:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, you ECed me when I was originally posted after the hypocritical staff member above. Also, you need to fix your siggy--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 19:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What does it mean to "EC" someone? I don't speak slang, chatroom speak, or Leet Speak, either. Also, I have known for quite a long time that my image is broken; I uploaded TurtleShroom.png on the Club Penguin Wiki, but I have no clue on how to make it work on all Wikia wikis.
 * [[Image:TurtleShroom.PNG|left|thumb|[[User:TurtleShroom|TurtleShroom]] Was Here!]] Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! :) :) 19:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * EC=Edit Conflict, when someone else edits the page before you have a chance to save your changes. You would have to upload the image on this wiki and every other one... Whats with the frame?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 19:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

TurtleShroom: You're right, there's going to be a period of adjustment as people get used to the change. That's especially true for wikis that have been on Monobook up to now. Monobook is a very good and useful skin for a lot of people.

There are a few reasons why we think Monaco is better for Wikia than Monobook. As you know, right now we're working on ways to increase our ad revenue, and Monaco allows us more flexibility with ad placement than Monobook does. Monaco also gives us the ability to add new features and make improvements that wiki communities ask for.

Another big factor is that Monobook is not easy for everyone to understand. You're absolutely right, Wikipedia uses Monobook and is very successful. Many of the wikis on Wikia have also become successful using Monobook. But if you think about the entire population of people who use the internet, there's a very small fraction who know how to edit a wiki. I talk to people all the time who use Wikipedia as an information source, but when you ask if they've ever made an edit, they say no. Contributing to a wiki can be very intimidating at first.

Monaco has been designed to help brand-new users understand how the wiki works. The design puts the most important features together in one area -- the edit button, the search box, the toolbox, and links to the best content. The community box gives new readers a glimpse at Recent changes, so they understand that there's an active community on the site, and it also provides a prominent Log in button.

We've found that wikis who have switched from Monobook to Monaco see an increase in activity -- more people reading pages, more people logging in, more people using the search box to find the content they're interested in. It may look strange to established users, but new readers find Monaco easier to use.

The community and content teams are available to help wikis make whatever changes they need to make -- the sidebar, templates, whatever you think you'll need. Next week, the change will only impact wikis that are currently using Monaco. Staff members will be coming around to wikis using Monobook over the next couple of weeks to help them switch over to Monaco. It's definitely going to be a big change, but we're committed to helping every wiki make that transition successfully. -- Danny (talk ) 20:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Big brother knows best huh? Why I have no intent of dealing with this wikia shit must longer...--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 21:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Please
I think I speak for a lot people when I say, can we just have Monobook back because wikis look a lot better with just Monobook. The for example the JROTC wiki looks much better in Monobook, and it looks really stupid in any other skin. kluft 22:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

What about the Star Trek wikis?
Will they too be forced to use Monaco? Right now the 3 main Star Trek wikis use Monobook, and if they are forced to change the entire wikis' format, the site will be completely changed; probably not for the better. kluft 23:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Over the next few weeks, the community and content teams will be coming to all of the Monobook wikis and helping them to make the transition to Monaco. The Star Trek wikis will be included. -- Danny (talk ) 23:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

So what does that mean? Is memory alpha gonna be all looking like this page? White background and all? If so, that is terrible. That would really suck. Why are they doing this? How would the new one look like? User: distantlycharmed


 * It'll look pretty much the same. Monaco can be customized the same way that Monobook can, so the Star Trek wikis can use dark backgrounds if they want. For an example, check out WoWWiki. -- Danny (talk ) 03:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Well I really like Memory Alpha how it is. I hope they dont turn it to something generic. It really does have the feel of the Star Trek universe now. User: distantlycharmed

Monaco Skin
What's the Monaco Skin?


 * As stipulated at the top of this page, it's Wikia's New Style. (Not exactly because we already are in Monaco but you can see it there.) — TulipVorlax 01:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Links Toolbox - needs the "Printable version" link
That link exists in the Monobook skin and it is sorely missed in this newly mandated Monaco skin. najevi 06:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Also permanent link and recentchangeslinked. --Ciencia Al Poder (talk) -WikiDex 19:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The recent changes link could be added to the link toolbox using

* Special:Recentchanges      |Recent changes
 * I don't know what the "permanent link" is. najevi 04:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Recentchangeslinked is labeled "" in your language. Is like Recentchanges but only for pages that are linked in the article, templates and images used in the article. Is like a watchlist and you can get an rss feed of it (only on monobook, of course).
 * Permanent link, "" in your language, is a link to the current revision of the article, so if further changes were made to the article, the link points always to the same version of the article. It's often used on bibliography citations. Or just to point to an unvariant article. And it also gives the article in it's original state even if the article has been moved (renamed) --Ciencia Al Poder (talk) -WikiDex 18:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Main_page new tags for LH and RH columns
FYI: It appears that wikimarkup for the RH column must be placed before the LH column in order for the page layout to appear correctly. najevi 06:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Also:
 * blank lines that appear in your source before the mainpage-rightcolumn-start tag will show up as "white space" at the top of the RH column.
 * blank lines that appear in your source before the mainpage-leftcolumn-start tag will show up as "white space" at the top of the LH column.

najevi 01:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Site default skin set to Monobook
If you prefer to see Monobook as the default skin for a wiki:
 * edit MediaWiki:AdminSkin
 * change the text of that page to lowercase monobook

Whenever a site admin saves their skin preference page the mandated monaco-sapphire</tt> overwrites the last edit of this file.

Wikia staff have advised that this workaround is deprecated and will eventually be disabled. No time frame specified. najevi 06:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Link toolbox - feature request
See w:c:Help:Help_talk:Customizing_Monaco

Can I customize these aspects of the LH navbar?
I have read the article w:c:Help:Customizing_Monaco but it does not cover sufficient aspects of skin customizing that are of interest to me. Some things it does cover are not specified with enough detail e.g.
 * 1) if an image is to be used as a background then what are the requires pixel dimensions?
 * 2) does such an image tile or stretch to fit?
 * 3) site logo image size needs to be brought into line with the NewMonaco specification

In general Monaco is much "chunkier" than Monobook. I know this is promoted as a feature but please respect the fact that it is a thorn in the side for many of us who strive to "keep the main thing the main thing." Neither the user interface nor the edit link are the main thing!

So here are a couple of things that I want to do with my Monaco skin. Which things are achievable and which are not?
 * permanently remove the Languages widget
 * specify a different font for certain widgets and the sidebar:
 * sidebar navigation menu
 * Link Toolbox
 * Shout Box chat

najevi 22:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * To respond to the "are thoses thing achievable" last part, i would say "Yes, they are". All widget share a class named widget so in Mediawiki:Monaco.css, you just put :

.widget { /* add custom CSS atributes here */ }
 * But, inside a perticular Widget, there is other sub markup with their own CSS style that might interfere with a global widget rule. What i do when i want to know what to use as a CSS selector to achieve what i want is to look at the source code of the page. Often i even paste it in an editor like Dreamweaver even tough it wil not render it properly it let me clic on bit of text and see what is inside what and what are the names of the class or the ID that is used to style them.
 * But i know we all have different level of knowledge of HTML markup and all, so i'll offert my help to everybody or so.
 * As for the 3 firsts questions :
 * Site background can be almost of any size (but try to stay reasonable).
 * The background will tile or not as specified in the CSS rule used to add it to the site.
 * The old Monaco used Wiki wide.png like Quartz was. New Monaco will use Wiki.png that is the same logo that was used with Monobook.


 * — TulipVorlax 02:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * One last thing; the language widget should not be remove in the site monaco.css. This should be done in your personnal CSS only. Others users might need that widget. — TulipVorlax 02:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Merci beaucoup. All my experimenting is being done within my User:Najevi/monaco.css file. I am progressing through a CSS tutorial today as CSS is not familar territory for me. I learned about the 5 background parameters earlier on and I have noticed that even when I specify "background-repeat: no-repeat" (e.g. within #link_box { .. } ) the specified image will get tiled in both X and Y directions. najevi 03:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That might be because another style get applied after yours, but i dont know. I have a background image in the monobook.css on fr.guildwars and i've set it to repeat only horizontaly and it works. On monaco, i did not set up a background.
 * Where is that personnal CSS on wich you're working ?
 * Try the following to hide the Languages box :
 * — TulipVorlax 06:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * — TulipVorlax 06:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * http://rappelz.wikia.com/wiki/User:Najevi/monaco.css najevi 06:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh ... missing semi-colons! The devil is in the detail, n'est-ce pas? najevi 15:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

System downtime?
Will wikia be down for maintenance tomorrow?

Tim Donahey 04:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * no, we don't plan any downtime -- sannse (talk) 10:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Bug in link at widget - Last Wikis
The "Hub list" link w:c:Category:Hubs has an extraneous "c:" in it. Glad to see I am not the only one who gets confused by these prefixes. ;-) najevi 04:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Where's this najevi? I don't see where you mean.  Thanks -- sannse (talk) 10:23, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Open Special:Widgets
 * Search to end of list for "Last Wikis"
 * click (+) to add that widget to sidebar
 * in that widget box labeled "Last WIkis" you'll see the following text with link:
 * There are no previously visited wikis to display. Visit our Hub list for other wikis to visit.
 * The correct link is w:Category:Hubs
 * najevi 14:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Got it, thanks... it's on the bugs list -- sannse (talk) 15:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Text error
There's a small error on pages on Memory Alpha which have stand-alone images rather than infoboxes. On these pages, the first line of text runs above the image. This appears to be a result of NoScript being enabled, preventing the ad block from appearing, but causing the text to run over the top of the image. Here is an example of the problem: Is there any way to fix this other that disabling NoScript? Thanks in advance! --From Andoria with Love 12:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * ADDENDUM: For the record, the problem goes away when I have NoScript forbid memory-alpha.org. But I'd rather not have it like that. :/ --From Andoria with Love 12:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * ADDENDUM #2: In some cases, the text actually goes over the image, as in the case here: Also, while blocking memory-alpha.org with NoScript fixes this error, it also prevents users from using certain functions, such as hiding/showing lists. So this definitely needs to be fixed. Pleeeeeease. :) --From Andoria with Love 14:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've reported this. -- sannse (talk) 14:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, sannse! :)

Just wanted to mention that I have the same problem on the Galaxy Angel Wiki, and that it seems to be problem with not just images, but anything that floats in the top right. --Amakase 20:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Actual Relevance to Wiki
Would it be possible for some wikis to have ads that are relevant to their wiki, like the Google ads were? I'm asking this because I am starting to wonder who cares about their credit score when they visit an wiki about the Olympics, or Halo, or whatever?


 * Oops, missed this... The issue is that ads come from various sources. Where we have an individual campaign, then the ads are likely to be very specific to the wiki.  If we haven't sold that slot (and at the moment, mostly we haven't) then it will be more random.  We will do what we can to increase the specificity though -- sannse (talk) 12:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

May I be the first to say...
...this new Monaco SUCKS. The adverts are in the way of the articles, images are pushed aside, and the layout is screwed up. Why couldn't we just keep the adverts where they were originally? I have no interest is seeing flashing messages about rubbish cursor designs or Google job opportunities, if I want that I'll watch the TV. At least give us the option to hide the adverts when they appear. :( Darth Raivon 16:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, you may want to see Forum:Wikia's New Style, that's more for comments on the skin (see also the archived pages linked at the top). This page is to report bugs and so on :) thanks -- sannse (talk) 16:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Wierd glitch with WidgetDashboard
I can't exit out of the WidgetDashboard. Does this have to do with New Monaco or something else? MarioGalaxy2433g5 { talk /contribs/Logs} 19:16, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you still have this probelm? It doesn't sound like an issue with New Monaco... what are you seeing? and what browser and operating system do you use?  Thanks -- sannse (talk) 11:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I click the x on the Widget Dashboard but it reappears each time. I use Internet Explorer (not sure which version right now). MarioGalaxy2433g5  { talk /contribs/Logs} 19:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * IE 7. MarioGalaxy2433g5  { talk /contribs/Logs} 19:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see it... nasty bug! I'll get it fixed -- sannse (talk) 20:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Already had Monaco but...
The new style hasn't effected me that much, as I switched The Hardy Boys Wiki to Monaco shortly after it first came out. One thing I will say I do not like about the new changes is the ads! I can totally see why you need ads, but I do not see what was wrong with the top banner ads. Why would advertisers not want to be at the top of the page? And the new placement of ads gets in the way of infoboxes, and makes the page look over all bad.

Also I don't really know how to customize the skins, so if any one could take a few minutes and tell me how to change the background color of my wiki (doesn't go so well with the Wiki.png logo as it did with Wiki wide) or do it themselves, that would be great!

Thanks,

WHLfan (talk/contribs) 20:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a guide to customising the skin at w:c:Help:Customizing Monaco. The main change you need is to add to add the following code to MediaWiki:Monaco.css


 * .color2 {
 * background-color: red;
 * }


 * Changing "red" to your colour choice of course.
 * On the overall changes, I know it's a big jump, but we believe that the changes are necessary to ensure Wikia is successful. Please see Forum:Wikia's New Style (including the archived pages) for more discussion on this.  -- sannse (talk) 12:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Main page little trouble
I've put the proper markup on fr.guildwars main page so it have the two columns to accomodate the "square" add but i still get a banner on top. Did i missed something ? — TulipVorlax 22:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * And another thing, the new main page layout dont look good for users that choosed Monobook . — TulipVorlax 22:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Now both add show but it cause some box to overlap : (page capture on ImageShack) — TulipVorlax 22:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, i've managed to do something that dont look too bad on Monaco but it still looks horrible on Monobook. And all add dont always show up so the main page look change every time it is viewed. It also change for annon users...
 * By the way, i had to put :

width:150px; }
 * 1) wiki_logo, #wiki_logo a {
 * in Monaco.css so the logo dont get truncated. I'm too lazy to do another image file and doing so would penalized Monobook users once more. — TulipVorlax 22:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I've reported the problem on the main page, although it may be that you need that column to be full length. -- sannse (talk) 12:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

How do you hide?
How do you hide the page name like on Speed Racers wikia.

It doesnt say Speed Racer or Main Page, it just shows the article.

How do I get that?


 * You put :

.page-Accueil * .firstHeading, .page-Accueil * h3#siteSub, .page-Accueil * #contentSub { display:none; }
 * in Common.css but you must replace "Accueil" by your main page name (it's different for every language). — TulipVorlax 22:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

That is a very neat trick. It saves beaucoup space on a specific page. With a simple modification I have applied it (via my user version of monaco.css file) to all pages: /* hide page title on all pages */

* .firstHeading, * h3#siteSub, * #contentSub { display:none; }
 * Do you anticipate any problem with omitting page title from every page?

I reason that since the the page title is now separated from the article content by a leaderboard ad it no longer makes sense to waste screen space on a page title. If the page title is important for a specific page it can be added below a forced leaderboard ad by using == or inline with a block ad by using ={PAGENAME}=</tt> i.e. without the empty table.

najevi 01:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Could be a nice idea. What i know is that often need to copy paste pages titles to make links without underscores. Your PAGENAME idea could be implemented easy on thoses thousan of pages on fr.guildwars that use a template to present 90% of the page information. But i think i'll prefer to invest efforts in doing something more usefull for now. Mainly need a way to adapt the thousan of pages that mostly only show a sort of infobox currently because we are too few users for them to have more information. — TulipVorlax 03:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes I understand. I have also noticed that the link to any redirect page is lost when I hide a page title. najevi 07:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

After using "View page source" to study the HTML behind a rendered page I discovered/realized that:
 * siteSub corresponds to the site's tag line (if enabled)
 * contentSub corresponds to the link to any redirect page
 * In general it pays to use your browser's "view page source" to figure out which CSS selector to use to modify the style of a specific page element of interest. 

Maybe this is obvious to a CSS veteran but as a novice, I really wish that I had read this in a help article rather than learning about it by trial and error. najevi 23:40, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

More banners than predicted
On fr.guildwars, most articles show banners instead of the 300x250. Why ? Take this page as an exemple if you need. — TulipVorlax 05:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like it's because of the way you make your infoboxes. They are tables, so the software puts out a banner to prevent clashes -- sannse (talk) 12:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * So even floated tables count ? And what if put the table in a div that will have the float attribute ?
 * By the way, that template was not done by me. — TulipVorlax 18:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I've try the div and it doesn't work. — TulipVorlax 18:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Preview Bug?
Take a look at this page. When I preview I get an adbox, but when i save I get a banner. Bug? Also, on these pages I might actually prefer an adbox given the existing layout. Not sure if anything can be done to accomodate a preference in that direction. -- 17:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)