User:FanofRPGs/sandbox40000

Number of Universes
"Ka’Bandha fell through the hidden spaces between worlds. The occulted gears of creation rushed by him. In the machineries of being were the inner secrets of the universe displayed to him. The daemonkin of Tzeentch would have damned a dozen eternities for a glimpse of what he saw, but Ka’Bandha did not care for knowledge. The things on display were valueless to him, and the wonders of infinity whirled by unappreciated. Ka’Bandha fell forever and for no time at all, until a wave of change rippled out through the multi-dimensional space he infected, upsetting the delicate workings of infinite, interleaved universes. Ka’Bandha howled in triumph. The promised storm had been unleashed."

- The Devastation of Baal This quote shows that Realspace has infinite universes. This will play alongside a later quote about several brane universes.

Other Timelines
"She drifted, watching each tightly woven thread split into fractal patterns of innumerable futures as she approached. The skein’s tides were unpredictable at the best of times, and to see one individual destiny was next to impossible."

- Gods of Mars, pg 10 As I will describe more in the Breath of the Gods part of the C’tan section, the cosmology also has infinite timelines and futures. This is likely through the Many-Worlds Interpretation.

"The many-worlds interpretation implies that there is a very large — perhaps infinite — number of universes. It is one of many multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy. MWI views time as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realised. This is intended to resolve the correlation paradoxes of quantum theory, such as the EPR paradox and Schrödinger's cat, since every possible outcome of a quantum event exists in its own universe."

- Wikipedia

However, do note the use of the word "fractal" and "innumerable," this make me thinks they are actually saying there is an uncountably infinite number of timelines. This makes the temporal element of Realspace 2-A to High 2-A, depending on how large the Materium is. As I will go on later, I do think the universe is infinite.

On the Myriad Dimensions of Realspace
I will start with the quote from Mechanicum written by Graham McNeil.

So Versus Battles Wiki currently uses this quote to justify an arbitrarily high number of higher spatial dimensions for Warhammer 40K:

"“You have such a limited understanding of the material world, girl. Words like here and there have no meaning. The myriad dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!”"

- Mechancium

And Versus Battles Wiki takes it to mean this:

"“which contains a number of higher dimensions so great it cannot be expressed by something so limited as human language”"

- How VSB interprets it

I disagree with this interpretation on all fronts, as I will explain below:

The Semantics Are Wrong
The interpretation Versus Battles Wiki has above requires some critical misunderstanding of how English works. In terms of parts of speech, the quote can be boiled down and deconstructed as “The x-number of dimensions are.” However, the wiki somehow read it as “There are an x-number of dimensions,” which is wholly wrong. Here is the quote again:

"“The myriad dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!”"

But for some reason it seems that Versus Battles Wiki read this quote as:

"“The myriad number dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!”"

The interpretation of “myriad dimensions” here somehow became “myriad number of dimensions” which changes the entire sentence’s meaning. But it never said “myriad number of dimensions,” it said “myriad dimensions” which means something entirely different.

I thus ask, where does one find him actually meaning “the number of dimensions?” What was assumed was that “myriad” means “number of” because myriad tends to be defined as “an arbitrarily large variety or number,” but it doesn’t mean “number of.” So it is talking about the QUALITY of the dimensions, not the QUANTITY. Also, VSB at the moment defines Myriad as arbitrarily large number, which fair enough, McNeil used it in that sense occasionally as I show below, but for a larger majority of the time, he used it as a flowery way to say “several” or “various.” Here are some examples from his Horus Heresy works:

False Gods: Fulgrim: No Reference: 
 * In the wake of the militant arm of the launch came the logistics of an invasion, ammunition carriers, food and water tankers, fuel haulers and a myriad other support vessels essential for the maintenance of offensive operations.

Mechanicum: The Outcast Dead: In the depths of the Whispering Tower, a lone figure hooded in a robe of embroidered jade stood in the centre of a domed chamber that echoed with the myriad voices of a departed choir.
 * Easily as huge as Equitos Bellum, it was spherical and heavily armoured, a pair of monstrous weapon arms at its sides and a myriad of flexible, metallic tentacles crouched over its shoulders like scorpions’ tails.
 * The Fabricator General was an imposing individual, a figure rendered massively tall by the machine parts and bulky augmetics that had replaced eighty-seven point six per cent of his flesh. Mechadendrites, alive with blades, saws and myriad other attachments waved at his back, while innumerable data wheels pulsed within him. Kane wondered how much of a body could be replaced with technology and still be called human.
 * Zeth gestured to the myriad of bulky vox-thieves and data carriers arranged around the dais. “In theory, the empath will simply be a conduit for information to pass from the aether to these recording devices.”
 * Information passed around Mars in a multitude of ways, along trillions of kilometres of cabling, through fibre-optics, fizzing electrical field clouds, wireless networks and hololithic conduits. The exact workings of the ancient mechanics by which many of the forges communicated were unknown, and even the magi that made use of such things did not fully understand them. Almost all the myriad means of information transfer were, however, vulnerable to the corrupting influence of the scrapcode boiling out from the depths of Olympus Mons in the dead of the Martian night
 * Information flooded him through the Manifold, a hundred different stimuli collected from the mighty engine’s myriad surveyors: heat, mass, motion, radiation, vibration and shield harmonics. Everything combined to paint a world more real to Cavalerio than reality itself.
 * Phosis T’kar stood near Ahriman to his right, with Khalophis on the spiral across from him. Hathor Maat was behind him and to his left, while Uthizzar was to his right and at the furthest extent of the spiral. A warrior’s standing was not simply measured by his proximity to the centre of the spiral, but by myriad other indicators: the position of the warrior next to him, behind him and across from him. Who was obscured, who was visible, the arc of distance between his position and the sun disc, all played their part in the dance of supremacy. Each member’s position interacted subtly with the other, creating a web of hierarchy that only Magnus could fathom.
 * The Enumerations were philosophical and conceptual tools to allow a practitioner of the mysteries to sift through the myriad complexities involved in bending the universe to his will. Such was his gift, the ability to achieve the impossible without knowing it was beyond comprehension.
 * “Channelling,” ordered Magnus, and glittering shapes unfolded from each warrior, Tutelaries in the forms of birds, eyes, lizards and a myriad other unnameable guises. They darted out into the open, and streams of fire and lightning erupted from their shimmering forms as their masters channelled aetheric powers through their insubstantial bodies.
 * Astartes and predatory killers fought in a confused mass of thrashing limbs, blades and claws. Ahriman swung his pistol around and drew on Aaetpio’s connection to the Great Ocean, tracing the myriad potential pathways of the future to follow the path his bolt would take in a fraction of a second. He squeezed the trigger twice in quick succession.
 * For six months, the Thousand Sons fleet suckled at the planet’s forges and materiel silos like newborns eager for the teat. Billions of rounds of ammunition, thousands of tonnes of food and water, uniforms, dried goods, pioneer supplies, armoured vehicles, power cells, fuel bladders and the myriad items an expeditionary fleet required in order to function were shipped from the surface in bulk lifters or via impossibly slender Tsiolkovsky towers.
 * “Which are you?” asked Lemuel without opening his eyes and trying to visualise the myriad paths of the falling cards.
 * The Reflecting Cave was filled with light, myriad pinpricks of soul-light that flickered form precisely shaped crystals held by the thousand Thralls standing at the intersection points of the cavern’s energy lines.
 * Thousands of tech-adepts, servitors and logi moved through the chamber’s myriad passageways,
 * It was not silent, this blackness, but filled with myriad howls, as though hunting packs of wolves stalked the unseen corners between worlds with them. Was there to be no escape from the Emperor’s war dogs?
 * Khaphed reached for him, his myriad eyes silently imploring him for help.
 * Abir ibn Khaldun exhaled cold air and saw myriad patterns in the swirling vapour of his breath, too many to examine fully, but diverting nonetheless.
 * If you learn anything in your time here, let it be that death surrounds us in all its myriad forms, just waiting to catch you unawares.
 * The man’s flesh was emblazoned with the tattooist’s art, myriad representations of lightning bolts, hammers and winged raptors.
 * Pleasure dreams, power dreams and a thousand gratified desires were paraded before Kai in myriad guises. Some masqueraded as reality, some as fantasy, but none could reach the buried secrets contained in the black horror of the Argo
 * ‘That remains to be seen,’ shouted Atharva in response, pushing his consciousness into the Custodian’s head, directing the living power of the warp into the myriad dying blood vessels in an effort to keep brain death at bay.
 * He took a terrified breath, but rather than the oily liquid texture he expected, a breath of achingly cold air filled his lungs. Instead of total darkness, Kai was plunged into a kaleidoscopic hallucination of myriad colours and swirling vortices.
 * The cylinder slid open with pneumatic hiss, and a mist of chemically-complex vapour drifted from the glistening organ within. Its surfaces were glossy red and purple, webbed with myriad networks of super-oxygenated blood.

In almost all of these quotes, any time "myriad" is used, it is shown to mean numerous and various. I.E Semyon’s quote can be taken as “The various dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!’” He is NOT saying that “The number of dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!” To believe that is to defy basic reading comprehension. He just means myriad as in a large number of dimensions are qualitatively X, not the actual quantifiable number is x amount. And myriad in the context of how the author uses it almost always just mean “various” or “many,” not even necessarily “an arbitrary (like millions or billions) large number.” So myriad to Graham McNeil could mean 10, 12, 100, 1000000, etc. This makes all the difference, and it means Versus Battles Wiki’s interpretation is wrong.

Plus what does that even mean to not “be defined by so limited a thing as human language” that isn’t just nonsense? I will get into this even further later down the line, but lemme give an example. The Berkely Cardinal is one of the largest and most exhaustive inconsistent cardinals, so large the fundamental axioms of Set Theory break down and if put into terms of tier, it would require a Tier S to be semi-comprehensible. Yet it can be defined in human terms. So does it fall subordinately to the nature of these “myriad dimensions?” Is Warhammer 40k now beyond Tier 0? That’s just one example and I will come back to this down the line.

Simply put, this is a rhetorically loaded quote which Versus Battles Wiki entirely misread in the first place to mean something else it grammatically and semantically never meant. If Semyon meant anything, he meant the quality of dimensions, not numerosity of dimensions. However, this was assuming Semyon was even being serious in the first place...

It Is Not Serious
We first must look at the character of Semyon and the context of the story. Here are all the major things he did in the story:


 * Introduces himself by teasing and playing with Dalia and her entourage
 * Bringing them deeper into the Dragon’s prison to show its non euclidean nature
 * Having Dalia process the last moments of the Dragon before imprisoned in Mars by the Emperor
 * Reveals the truth of the Mechanicum and why it must not be revealed
 * Transferring all his knowledge and wisdom to Dalia and then dying

I will not disagree or contest that he is a valuable source of information. If you read the pages succeeding his introduction you will see that is wholly true. What I will contest is the idea that we take every word he says is to be taken literally and at face value. More likely, Semyon was either doing the following:


 * 1) Teasing and mocking the characters in an eccentric and offbeat manner, likely to test them, or legitimately just to mess with them because he thinks they're foolish
 * 2) Actually trying to teach them and tell them something of value, but in a metaphorical and non-literalist manner

One problem that has come was the ignorance of the full context of Semyon's introduction which removes context that would make one come with the above conclusions. Here is the full unabridged quote:

"“And you would be right,” said a cracked voice, ancient and thick with age.

''Dalia spun to see Rho-mu 31 with his weapon stave aimed at a hooded adept in dark robes emerging from the passageway at the far end of the chamber.''

“Oh yes, you would be right,” continued the adept. “Happy day that you come to me! I had all but given up hope of anyone ever arriving!”

“Who are you?” demanded the Protector, igniting the tip of his weapon stave as a hulking servitor emerged from the shadows to stand beside the adept. The servitor was bulky with augmetics, one arm replaced with a hissing, wheezing power claw, the other with an oversized chainblade.

The adept drew back his hood and Dalia gasped as she saw his gaunt features, wild eyes and thin scraps of bone-white hair. His flesh shone with mercurial light, as though glittering fire filled his veins instead of blood, and upon his forehead she saw a shining electoo of a diminishing spiral with a stylised set of wings to either side.

The mark of the Dragon.

“I know you,” she said. “I dreamed of you.”

“The hooded man?” gasped Caxton. “He’s real?”

“Am I real?” asked the adept. “Well, as real as any of you, though what constitutes reality in this polluted cesspool of psi-spoor we call a universe… well, a matter for some debate, yes?”

“Who are you?” repeated Rho-mu 31, taking a step towards the man.

“Who am I? Now there’s a question. One might as well ask how many stars there are in the heavens, though that would have a definite answer. Or would it? Ah, it’s been so long since I have seen them. Are they still there or have the others devoured them?”

“The stars?” asked Dalia.

“Of course the stars,” snapped the adept. “Are they still there?”

“Yes, they’re still there.”

“How many?”

“I don’t know,” said Dalia. “Millions, I think.”

“Millions she says,” laughed the adept. “And not a second after she says she knows not.”

Rho-mu 31 stepped between Dalia and the cackling adept.

"I won’t ask again,” said Rho-mu 31. “Tell me your name.”

“My name,” said the adept, looking confused. “Ah, but it’s been so long since I needed one and it gets so hard to remember. I need no name, for my name is insignificant against the vast, echoing emptiness of the darkness, but men once called me Semyon.”

“And what are you doing here?” asked Dalia.

“Here?” cried Semyon, throwing his arms wide and spinning around like a lunatic. “You have such a limited understanding of the material world, girl. Words like here and there have no meaning. The myriad dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!”

Semyon stopped with his back to Dalia and looked over his shoulder, his face alight with the fire she had seen in Jonas Milus’ eyes before his body had disintegrated.

“I am the Guardian of the Dragon!” said Semyon."

- Mechancium

I think we can agree Semyon is a valuable source of information, but his reliability is not yet even established in this scene. Rather, what is established in this scene is that he is very obscure, snarky, and a smartass. It is shown that he is teasing and mocking the characters here (“Millions she says,” laughed the adept. “And not a second after she says she knows not.") And the only certain thing we know about him which from his own words is that his name is Semyon, which he still took a moment of rambling and conjecturing to finally utter out (“My name,” said the adept, looking confused. “Ah, but it’s been so long since I needed one and it gets so hard to remember. I need no name, for my name is insignificant against the vast, echoing emptiness of the darkness,-) and overall whatever Semyon says in this given scene should be taken with a grain of salt as he clearly isn't being serious or directly informative of any hidden truths. He is just screwing around because presumed millennia of isolation will do that.

And why should he be serious here? Look at what precipitated Semyon's response. Dalia asked a simple "why are you here" and Semyon sporadically took 90° turn to rant about the nature of the universe. What else could this be taken as except Semyon messing with Dalia by eccentrically deconstructing the usage of the word "here?" It's just completely unrelated to the subject of the discussion and has no reason to be stated but to be eccentric and say strange stuff. Like how can we just accept all the previous stuff he just said being obvious snark and teasing (because it was) but accept this one last thing to be totally serious and informative when there was no initial reason for it to be so, and if anything it was written to finalize the notion that he is eccentric and snarky?

On this topic of how serious he was, one last thing to notice throughout the preceding conversation, however is that the whole quote in the first place was clearly a bit of hypocritical and ironic humor as Semyon goes into an eccentric tirade directed at Dalia for using the words “here” and “there” when as we see in the quote, he did it himself several times. So the whole thing is just to show him being eccentric and a bit hypocritical. Remember this is before we even know he is a valuable source of information. We just know he says vague, contradictory, and metaphoric stuff, but nothing yet pertinent to greater didactic teaching of the nature of the 40k Verse and its history like he later would.

Even If He Is Serious, He Isn't Being Literal
Continuing, to give ground and assume, in some way, he was informing characters here. It still can be well argued to be a metaphorical and non-literalist series of statements from Semyon. We need to remember why Semyon is a valuable source of information; he is a guardian of the dragon who knows truths that no other adept or human or lifeform knows. Even if he is teaching he still relies on implications, metaphors, and inspirations, not didactic recitations of the universe’s nature. Here is one example where he berates Dalia for taking the events in the story literally:

"“I think so,” said Dalia. “This is Old Earth. Before Unification.”

Semyon nodded. “Long before Unification. The tribes of men are still divided and know nothing of the glories and perils beyond their world.”

“And what is that city over there?” asked Dalia.

“Still thinking in such literal terms, girl,” chuckled Semyon. “We are still in the cave of the Dragon. All this is a manipulation of your mind’s perception centres by the book to show you what needs to be shown. But in answer to your question, the city is called Cyrene and this is a representation of a land once known as Libya. It is an ancient land, though the people you see before you are far from the first to settle here. The Phoenicians came here first, men the Grekans, then the Romans, and finally the Arabii. Well, not finally, but that’s who rules now.”

“And when are we?”

“Ah, well, the text isn’t clear, though I believe this happened some time in either the eleventh or twelfth century.”

“So long ago.”

“A long time by anyone’s reckoning,” agreed Semyon. “Save perhaps his.”

“I don’t understand,” said Dalia. “Who are you talking about?”

“Never mind. You’ll understand soon enough.”

Dalia fought down her annoyance at Semyon’s cryptic answers and said, “So we’re not really here and this is just what’s in the book?”

“Now you begin to understand.”"

- Mechancium

"The image of the city and the desert were frozen in time, and Dalia turned to Semyon. “Is that all of it?”

“It’s all the Dragon remembers of it, yes,” said Semyon. “Or at least a version of its memories. It’s hard to tell what’s real and what’s not sometimes. I listen to its impotent roars of hatred as it watches from its gaol on Mars and write what comes out, the Emperor ‘slaying’ the Dragon of Mars… the grand lie of the red planet and the truth that would shake the galaxy if it were known. But truth, as are all things, is a moving target. What of this is real and what is fantasy… well, who can tell?”"

- Mechanicum

As we read about Semyon we see constantly that he is against taking things literally, that the universe is to be experienced and mystically interpreted, not blandly described in scientific terms. He didn’t tell Dalia anything until Dalia herself experienced or realized it and wasn’t explicit until Dalia already understood, why would he be explicit about one random quote he had in a rant?

So let's take the "myriad dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!” quote then. Why must we assume this here is talking about spatio-temporal dimensions? What would initiate him discussing geometric dimensional axes? Wouldn't it make more sense, should we say he is trying to sow a seed of truth here, that he was instead trying to say "The universe is too complex to blandly ask here and there and explain how I am here or there" rather than the absolutely unrelated literalist interpretation that he meant spatial dimensions?

These above are the most obvious and simple criticisms of this statement. Looking at the quote it was obvious Semyon wasn't being serious or literal here as he already showed to be snarky and teasing, he had no contextual reason to talk about spatio-temporal dimensions, and even if he was trying to be subtly informative it wouldn't be literal as it's not really in Semyon's character to be literal or spell something out until the character them-self discovers the deeper truth.

So in conclusion, Semyon while he was a reliable character now no greater reason or motive to say this and was just screwing around as with all the other things he said in his introduction, and if he was lacing his words with a deeper meaning they will be inherently metaphorical and non-literal, let alone so literal he means higher spatio-temporal dimensions when contextually that makes no sense. However.... I know this is not enough, I know that the notion that maybe he was being literal and serious, well, I will prove why the quote still doesn't mean transcedental higher spatial dimensions.

There's No Reason To Assume He Would Mean Spatial Dimensions
I will be liberal here, however, and assume that okay, yes, Semyon was being literal and he wasn’t just going on an eccentric and comedically hypocritical rant here. Let’s say he did mean physical dimensions of some sort had this x quality. Even with the assumption that it means physical dimensions, the assumption is that this quote means spatial dimension makes no sense given the context of the scene. Let me bring back why he starts the rant:

"“And what are you doing here?” asked Dalia."

To which Semyon responded:

"“Here?” cried Semyon, throwing his arms wide and spinning around like a lunatic.”"

Dalia was asking what Semyon was doing “here,” which first off obviously wasn’t with respect to a direction, but with general location, but what was this location? They were beneath the Noctis Labyrinthus in a place called the “Breath of the Dragon,” which may or may not be in or at least the threshold to another universal realm (The Void Dragon itself):

"They walked for what felt like an age, winding through serpentine passages and multicoloured galleries of translucent stalagmites, and across glittering bridges of smooth crystal. Dalia wondered what manner of internal geological transformation could alter so great a portion of the subterranean landscape.

“Geological metamorphosis I’d imagine,” said Zouche. “Aeons of pressure and heat can cause some rock types to change their state. Looks like that’s what’s happened here.”

No, realised Dalia, that’s not it at all. It’s something buried here that’s leaching outwards."

- Mechanicum

And another quote:

"This occurs slightly before they meet Semyon and thus suggests that the location they talked to him was at the very least in a threshold close to the dimension the Void Dragon exists within. However, I say threshold because I am not sure if it is the very center of the dimensional realm or not:

“You know where the Dragon is?” demanded Dalia. “Can you take us to it?”

Semyon laughed, a high-pitched skirling sound of hysteria. “Take you to it? Doesn’t she know it’s all around her, that she walks in the throat of the Dragon even now? Ha!”

''“This fellow’s mad,” declared Zouche. “Too much time alone has broken his brain.” “No,” said Dalia with steely conviction. “This isn’t the Dragon. Take us to it. Now!”''

Her friends turned at the commanding tone of her voice and even Semyon blinked in surprise. His eyes narrowed and he peered more closely at Dalia, as if seeing her for the first time.

Semyon grinned and nodded, pulling the hood of his robes over the wispy strands of his hair. “Very well,” he said, all hint of his former mania vanished. “Follow me and I will show you the Dragon.”

Semyon and his threatening-looking servitor led them from the laboratory, through the darkened passageway at the far end of the chamber, and into a winding series of tunnels. The gloom soon gave way to a soft light that once again seemed to come from the walls.

The walls here were also smooth, but instead of having the look of fused glass, these tunnels appeared to be fashioned from purest silver. With purposeful strides, Semyon led them through the twisting labyrinth of the incredible tunnels, apparently taking turns at random, but refusing to answer any questions as to their route.

Zouche jabbed his elbow into Dalia’s side. “Wherever this takes us, remember what we talked about on the mag-lev,” he cautioned.

“What was that?” asked Caxton.

“Nothing,” said Dalia. “Just Zouche being paranoid.”

“Paranoid am I?” smiled Zouche. “Remind me of that when this Dragon’s devouring you, Dalia. See how paranoid I am then, eh?”

Eventually, Semyon brought them out onto a wide ledge high up in a glittering cavern of blinding silver that put Dalia in mind of the hollow core of the planet, such was its size. It was the largest internal space any of them had ever seen or could imagine, the uttermost reaches soaring above and below them, and the shimmering walls curving out to either side of them like the largest amphitheatre ever conceived.

“Behold the Dragon!” cried Semyon, moving to stand before a wooden lectern that was incongruous for its very normality. A thick book with a worn leather binding sat atop the lectern, next to a simple quill and inkwell.

Dalia looked out over the vast expanse of silver that was the interior of the cave, half expecting to see some winged beast launch itself from its lair.

She glanced over at Caxton and Rho-mu 31, who both shrugged, both equally as puzzled as her. Severine shuffled forward to the edge of the jutting promontory they stood on, her eyes with a glazed, faraway look.

“Severine, watch out,” cautioned Zouche, looking over the edge. “It’s a long way down.”

“This place feels… strange,” said Severine, a tremor of disquiet in her voice. “Do any of the rest of you feel that?”

Dalia saw Severine looking in confusion at the distant walls of the gargantuan cavern, blinking rapidly and shaking her head as though trying to dislodge a troublesome thought.

“If the Dragon is chained somewhere in here, I expect it’s bound to feel a little strange,” said Dalia. She squinted at the far off walls, though their unbroken, reflective sheen made it hard to focus properly.

“No,” insisted Severine, pointing with her good arm at the vast shimmering silver walls and roof. “It’s more than that. The angles and the perspective… they’re… all… wrong! Look!”

As though Severine’s words had unlocked some hidden aspect of the cavern, each of them cried out as the sheer impossibility of its geometry, previously concealed from their frail human senses, was suddenly and horrifyingly revealed.

Dalia blinked in confusion as a sudden wave of vertigo seized her, and she grasped Rhomu 31’s arm to steady herself. Though her eyes told her that the walls of the cavern were impossibly distant, her brain could not mesh what she was seeing and what her mind was processing.

The angles were impossible, the geometry insane. Distance was irrelevant and perspective a lie. Every rule of normality was turned upside down in an instant and the natural order of the universe was overthrown in this new, terrifying vision of distorted reality. The cavern seemed to pulse in every direction at once, compressing and contracting in unfeasible ways, moving as rock was never meant to move.

This was no cavern. Was this entire space, the walls and floor, the air and every molecule within it, part of some vast intelligence, a being or construct of ancient malice and phenomenal, primeval power? Such a thing had no name; for what use would a being that had brought entire civilisations into existence and then snuffed them out on a whim have of a name? It had been abroad in the galaxy for millions of years before humanity had been a breath in the creator’s mouth, had drunk the hearts of stars and been worshipped as a god in a thousand galaxies

It was everywhere and nowhere at once. All powerful and trapped at the same time"

- Mechanicum

Here it's all but confirmed this prison is its own realm:

"“I understand,” Dalia told Semyon.

“The Dragon… I don’t know what it is, but I know where it is.”

“Do you?” asked Semyon.

“Tell me.”

“This cavern… everything in it. This is it. Or at least a sliver of it.”

Semyon nodded. “A tomb and prison all in one.”

“How?”

Semyon beckoned her over to the lectern and opened the book. “Look. Know.”"

- Mechancium

So they already were possibly in another dimension (As in universe) of some form, as they were within or close to the threshold of the Void Dragon’s prison. And the obscurity of this dimension brings even more reason for them to ask why Semyon was there. That brings us to the main thing Semyon said, again:

"“The myriad dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!”"

This is AFTER he responded to Dalia asking why he was in this location (and I repeat, location, obviously not direction) “here,” in a place that is effectively another dimension, and Dalia already had a suspicion (Though unconfirmed) that she was effectively in another dimension at the time:

"No, realised Dalia, that’s not it at all. It’s something buried here that’s leaching outwards."

So with reference to the conversation, the word “dimension” correlates more with alternate universes, subspaces, or realms, through whatever means possible such as in this case, via the Void Dragon’s prison. Thus, what Semyon could be saying in a more terse sense is “Why are you using the word here for a place like this when alternate dimensions within our universe run on different logic and descriptions which the word here can’t use?” This can go in line with my second argument with how Semyon constantly berated the characters to not take the universe for granted and literally, but to see his words and the universe in a metaphorical sense, and he was metaphorizing the innately twisted nature of the realm of Void Dragon which couldn’t be simply defined by asking the locative word, “here” (And this again is all assuming he was onto something and wasn’t in a playfully snarky tirade to screw with the characters which he obviously was).

Furthermore, we know that the author, Graham McNeil, has used the word “Dimension” directly to refer to other realms within the greater “Material Universe” as seen in Knights of the Imperium (And we will get back to this quote later):

"“A theoretically infinite number of dimensions of potentially infinite scale occupy other branes, which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of alternate realities, intersecting with our own in ways we cannot possibly imagine in any currently posited cosmological model.”"

- Knights of the Imperium

So dimension can work as a universe by the author’s own literary style.

Furthermore, the part saying “cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language” can easily just (flowerfuly) mean these other universe!dimensions have qualities and aspects we could not describe or apply any of our experience to. Is that really too large of a stretch to believe so?

Really, what here, if anything, suggests it could mean spatial dimensions? “Here and there” can refer to the locations in a universe!dimension, they were in a pocket dimension and had suspicions of being so already, and the usage of spatial dimension has even less relevance to a statement from Semyon which already had little to no relevance to what was being asked at the moment, that being why he was here. Really, it's such a stretch to believe Semyon was saying anything objectively factful here it's ridiculous, but I still must entertain the notion to show why it still wouldn't make sense to mean "transcedental spatial dimensions."

Even If They Are Higher Spatial Dimensions, How Is That Higher Infinities?
So let’s ignore that the quote inherently might be metaphorical and rhetorical, and let’s then ignore that there is more evidence that if he was being literal he meant universe!dimensions. Let’s assume yes, he does mean spatio-temporal dimension despite there being no contextual reason for him to.

And before one interjects: yes, the realm has weird non euclidean geometry and fucks with people’s sense of dimensionality and the like, but that is impertinent to the fact that Semyon is there and Dalia asking why Semyon is there. For one thing, neither character is close to that level of the dimension yet at the time Semyon was talking, and bringing this part up makes one wonder even more why Semyon is ranting such an off-topic subject, but that bolsters my first two arguments that we shouldn’t be taking his words seriously, literally, or at face value in the first place. I digress however, and will go back to the main entertainment, that let’s assume this does refer to higher dimensions.

First let me point out that if the dimensions of 40k’s universe “cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language”, then why do we even bother considering using the description of the universe made by that character, when said description is in fact made in that “limited language”?

If “human language” is useless in describing that place, as stated by the very same person that provides us that description, then we also have to assume that all of his other words, that use the very same language, can’t tell us anything useful about the properties of that place. That it makes this whole description a completely useless bunch of words becomes rather apparent, unless again the quote is taken to be metaphorical and not literal, bolstering arguments 1 & 2 again.

In what way does this “superiority” express itself? How exactly are those “dimensions” “superior” to the stuff seen in the 40k galaxy? Or even better, how does this situation differ from there simply not being any words in the language to describe that new place? All of those questions are left unanswered here, because you think that something could never be described before now has to count as qualitatively superior from what we know so far. These words mean nothing unless we have something solid to back up past "oh these dimensions are trippy" which is the case for even real life dimensions even if they are LEDs but not infinitely or significantly sized. How large are these dimensions? Did this quote ever say that it was the size of these dimensions which couldn't be defined by the human language? No it didn't, or did it answer if they were undefinable because they were transcedental? No again, we have no further leadup to why these dimensions are the way they are, and that is no surprise because again, this quote had no lead-in in the first place and was very clearly the ramblings of a bored and trollish mechanicum who was snarking.

Going a bit further, assuming that those “dimensions” are meant to be the spatial dimensions, this inability of the human language to describe that place could be a simple case of it lacking words to describe the new orthogonal directions, not present in the present 3-D universe we perceive. For a language that has been developed in a 3D space, it is hard to expect to have more than “left-right, up-down, back and forth”, or their equivalents, for describing different orthogonal directions. This doesn’t convey any notion of these new directions being in any way “superior” to the known ones. Using the words “here” and “there” mean absolutely nothing to 4 dimensional hyperspace even in real life, and we can use comparative terms to placehold what we mean, like hypervolume, but we cannot properly define it with our human language as the actual mathematical language for higher dimensions is well…

The same can be said when assuming that those “dimensions” are “some alternative realms/ places”. In that case it would also be a case of those places, as well as things in them, never getting their names. Implying that this has to mean that those places are somehow “superior” to the “normal universe” is equal to stating that Antarctica before 19th century was in some way “superior” to the rest of the world, as in no human language up to that point we have had words/phrases etc. to completely describe its aspects. Up to that point it was a completely unknown place to humans, with a lot of stuff never seen before by humans and thus not named in the “human languages”, making them inadequate to describe it properly. That this situation was changed after visiting that place and naming stuff there, is how exploration works in the first place.

And Semyon in this case would be one who had priorly traversed the antarctic metaphorically and can describe the nature of the metaphorical antarctic. A person asking him “here” is like someone asking what the “big silver dogs” (polar bears) are in the arctic. It’s simply not in their vocabulary, like how the descriptors of higher spatial dimensions are not in the human vocabulary because we can’t properly perceive it.

And this is again all assuming that Semyon meant higher spatial dimensions, when in context there is more to go that if he even meant it literally (Which he likely didn’t) that he meant other universes and realms, and even more to go by that he wasn’t being literal about dimension at all and he was ranting about the nature of the universe in a non-literal or metaphorical sense, or even more possibly he was just teasing and ranting for snark’s sake and not to define anything.

Conclusion
So in order to believe that that Semyon was saying higher dimensions were higher levels of reality or higher infinites, we must believe:


 * 1) That we assume that he is always serious and everything he says is supposed to have an educative purpose, whether implicit or explicit (Which sure, I can accept)
 * 2) That we take everything he says literally when he is a character who thrives on implications and metaphor, not directly spelling out stuff
 * 3) That Semyon means spatio-temporal dimensions and not pocket realms, or “dimensions” (as commonly used in 40k) to mean elements and aspects and multi-faceted natures of something
 * 4) That he meant that higher dimensions were qualitatively superior and larger than lower ones and not simply indescribable due to normal 3-D perception of humans

But I have established that:


 * 1) Semyon, while a valuable source of information, is somewhat of a snarky smartass who likes to tease characters and he wasn’t even established as yet trustworthy when he was messing with them, so there is no reason to assume this last quote in his introduction, after a series of teases and snarky comments, is any more serious or educative than the others
 * 2) Semyon goes out of his way to speak cryptically and sometimes hypocritically, and also berates characters for taking what happens literally. While he is a valuable source of information, this does not mean every word he says is to be didactically taken seriously and used as proof for anything unless it’s obvious he’s trying to educate the characters, which he doesn’t even tend to do directly
 * 3) Should it be taken literally, there is no evidence it means spatial dimensions and would most certainly direct to universe!dimensions at best, given what the author most commonly uses dimension as a term for, and given the context of the setting and discussion prior to Semyon’s rant
 * 4) Even if it did mean higher spatial dimension, there is no proof Semyon’s wording meant they were qualitatively superior, just alien and foreign at best. This is because there is no further elaboration of what he meant because again, he either wasn't being serious at all or didn't mean something literally

And thus it would take a borderline headcanon level of bias and agenda to assume Semyon was being literal, meant spatial dimensions, and meant they were qualitatively superior higher dimensions

On The Twenty Dimensions Quote
For some context, during a Black Crusade, heretics are swept onto a Necron Tomb world and have gone into its depths and have 3 places to entire around this large circular room circuit. One optional place is the Hibernation Tesseract, which they enter and seek to sabotage, but they find themselves incapable of doing so for this reason:

"“The devices cannot be destroyed with conventional explosives, as the Heretics soon realise that the crystalline obelisks and the central pillar do not fully exist in a physical sense. In fact, they are physical manifestations of the hibernation tesseract and exist in 20 dimensions at once.”"

- Black Crusade: The Hand of Corruption, pg. 106

This quote is used by Versus Battles Wiki to justify that because there exists purportedly 20-dimensional structures in Warhammer 40k, and thus the cosmology itself would logically be 20-D as a whole.

I disagree with this quote on three fronts: That it really means spatial dimensions, that even if it did mean spatial dimensions little enough is known for it to be salient to tiering, and that the quote itself is of dubious consistency to the vast majority of statements regarding C’tan emprisonment.

What Is a Hibernation Tesseract
I will expand on this later on, but for a brief summary. A Hibernation Tesseract is a giant pyramidal structure used to house C’tan:

"Within the circle created by the reanimation facilities lie the core facilities of the tomb world. One is a temple-like structure—a hibernation tesseract. Although the Heretics may be fooled by its grandiose appearance into thinking it is vital to Kalugura’s functions, it is in fact nothing more than a vast prison for one of the most dangerous beings in existence, a C’tan Shard.

After the Necrons turned on their C’tan masters and overthrew them, they shattered their essence into countless Shards and bound them so they might never take control of the Necrons again. These Shards were stored on Necron tombs across the galaxy, and one was placed on Kalugura. The master program has no intention of awakening this being, as it is a puissant and dangerous thing barely held in check by its necrodermis skin. Therefore, it is completely unguarded.

If the Heretics follow the interior passageways to the temple-like complex they’ve seen on the maps, read or paraphrase the following:

[The smell and taste of air that has been stale for countless aeons wafts over you. You detect the sharp tang of ozone, dampness, petrochemicals, and mould. It seems as if the power may have continued to function even as some corrosion began to set in, but unlike the other Necron structures you have investigated, no lights or noises come from within. As you enter the building, you notice that the walls are covered in hieroglyphics once more. These, however, seem to have new characters interspersed with those you’ve seen elsewhere. As you venture deeper into the structure, the room opens up into an enormous pyramidal shape. Scanning the room with a light, you see that the four sides converge to an apex roughly 150 metres overhead. Massive steps descend from the entry into an open area, roughly 75 metres per side.

The floor is covered with crystalline obelisks, each standing more than five metres tall. They are arranged in concentric circles, each obelisk exactly one metre apart from the others. Although they are perfectly still, they seem strangely insubstantial to your eyes. The circles surround a vast central pillar that runs from floor to apex. Unlike all of the Necron architecture you’ve seen thus far, this seems to be constructed from a smoke-filled crystal. Even as you watch, you think you see the vague shapes within the crystal slowly shifting.]"

- Black Crusade: The Hand of Corruption, pg. 106

This described the structure in depth, and as you can see it is huge. However, this isn’t the only “tesseract” technology the Necrons use to store C’tan, they also use Tesseract Labyrinths and Tesseract Vaults. I think while the structure is more similar to the larger vault used for Transcendent C’tan, this isn’t a Transcendent C’tan here because this C’tan could be defeated by Chaos Space Marine which is absolutely impossible to do if it was transcendent and also because it utilizes dimensional technology in some form which is more evocative of Labyrinths. Indeed, Tesseract Vaults utilize advanced energetic technology as I will reiterate down below. Thus, I will make my arguments on the premise that Hibernation Tesseracts function similar enough to Tesseract Labyrinths.

Responding to Some Criticisms
I argued before that due to the occurrences of the word “dimension” in Black Crusade: Hand of Corruption that the word dimensions was rarely if at all used to refer to spatio-temporal dimensions and as such there was no consistent basis at which one can argue all of a sudden this one quote meant spatial dimension. I was rebutted by the following:

"“This is a blatant 20D statement, there is nothing vague or confusing about it. How many times "dimensions" is mentioned and in what context outside of this sentence is completely irrelevant. Because in this sentence is quite clear in what it's talking about.”"

I would counter this and I had a paragraph written, but I don’t want to get bogged in debating cases of confirmation bias fallacy and then rebutting inevitable claims of appeal to author/bandwagon fallacy and author intent fallacy. So I will use what you guys will inevitably say and will say that the ones who interpret this throwaway plot-convenience (Which it is. It justified why they need to actually go activate the master program) line from a random game-guide to create a grand narrative of the numerical dimensionality of the materium despite conflicting evidence to be overthinking it.

"Not to mention it makes 0 sense to mean pocket dimensions. What does that even mean "existing at 20 pocket dimensions at ones"."

I actually discussed this with a friend who is more scientifically inclined, TheLivingTribunal1. Now I will discuss my codified theory in particular which can explain it all based on and supported by in-text quotes regarding Tesseract Labyrinths, but for now, I will explain what he said:

He first explained the idea of connected spaces, that if you have a specifically defined subspace but it has discontinuities like touching the wall of one segmented block of this subspace could lead you to another separate/remote block.

He also noted, possibly, that the Hibernation Tesseract can be an object an object that was originally present in a pocket dimensional subspace but then this connected subspace is transformed into a disconnected subspace which has a copy/component of the original object in them for all disconnected subspace components so destroying a copy/component in one disconnected subspace wouldn't do much since there are back ups in the other ones which can regenerate the lost copy in one disconnected subspace. This, alongside its residence in other sub-spatial pocket dimensions, creates its visible illusion described as unreal in the book and also makes it so it cannot be so simply destroyed.

Now I admit this is obviously conjecture speculation, but that is not the point. My point here is that the Hibernation Tesseract comprising of pocket dimensions can make sense and can be overlapped/exist in a multiplicity. Now I have a different explanation which unifies all the Tesseract Prison descriptions into one, but that isn’t for now.

"“Not to mention it has "tesseract" in the name, which is analogous to higher-d objects in general.”"

Oh boy, this one is quite wrong

Tesseract is literally a flashy name that has nothing to do with higher dimensions. For example, there exists the Tesseract Bomb (Albeit from it comes from Tech Assassins not the Necrons) which deals with pocket dimensions not higher dimensions:

"However, the most dangerous weapon employed by the Maestro pattern is the tesseract bomb. When activated, this devastating weapon shunts a portion of its surroundings into a pocket dimension, violently disrupting the molecular structure of anything caught in the blast."

- Black Crusade Core Rulebook, pg. 362

Or what about the Tesseract Ark, actually made by the Necrons, which is based on the heart of a dying star and not hyperdimensional tech?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Necron-Tesseract-Ark

"The Tesseract Ark is one of the most powerful Necron war machines encountered on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium, and so sophisticated is its design, it can be manufactured only by the most adept of Crypteks. Built around a contained singularity torn from the heart of a dying star, in battle the Tesseract Ark can siphon the destructive energies of this captured star-fragment and unleash them in a variety of terrible ways. Most notably, the armoured bulk of the Tesseract Ark is surrounded by a gravitic distortion effect, a potent defensive mechanism."

In fact, not even the C’tan all ‘tesseract’ prisons use higher dimensional tech. The Tesseract Vault functions completely differently:

"Transcendent C'tan are the most dangerous of their kind. Each is an aggregation of anywhere between a dozen and a hundred lesser shards, and its power far surpasses the sum of its parts. Those few that are chained to Necron service are not contained by tesseract labyrinths, but by energy shackles designed aeons ago by the legendary artificer Svarokh. Such devices are unstable, making the deployment of a Transcendent C'tan without a Tesseract Vault to restrain it something of a risk, only undertaken in times of direst need."

- Apocalypse (6th Edition)

The point is that just claiming something is higher dimensional because it has the word “tesseract” means nothing. Tesseract is a flashy word and you just claimed with regards to M-Theory that they just throw science they don’t understand. Except, unlike that which I addressed, there is no further elaboration why its called tesseract aside for the fact that it’s a cool name and other C’tan prisons use the ‘tesseract’ moniker even when they don’t use higher dimensional technology (Tesseract Vault). In fact, "tesseract" means a four dimensional structure, not broadly "higher dimensional," so how does that equate to the claimed "20 dimensional structure" aside for wishful thinking for a correlation between its name and some much higher dimensional number purportedly given?

"“And it's described as infinite fractals folding in on themselves causing people to be sick of vertigo or even go mad.”"

Uhh no it isn’t? For one thing, we must actually look at the whole quote:

"Heqiroth stood just behind his master, fixing them with a piercing stare. His gaze now spoke of a resolve and intensity that Amontar would scarcely have guessed him to possess.

"It was simple enough to win their confidence. They knew that a covert intrigue would never be sanctioned by the judicator, after the fact. They needed to abide by the forms of martiality, if they wanted to seize the throne from you."

His eyes seemed to sparkle at the thought.

"In fact, my lord regent - there is something else."

Turakhin did not turn to face him. 'Oh yes? Present what you have, good Heqiroth. Though there is little that can further compound the misery that will soon be heaped upon these traitors…'

Heqiroth retrieved something from a pouch at his belt. "It is a modest token, from Overseer Ruadzhe. He bid me reveal it to you only when the conspiracy was unmasked."

The vizier placed it in Turakhin's open hand. The overlord looked down, as did Amontar.

It was a small, black pyramidal object. Its smooth inner surfaces seemed visible, moving and spiralling, whirling through infinite fractal loops, drawing the eye inwards… ever inwards, down into the darkness of an unknowable and eternal voidandnevershouldasentient— mindwitnesssuchhorrorssuchhorrorssuchhor—

Amontar let out a shriek, tearing his gaze away from the tesseract and sprawling to the floor. White flashes crazed his vision, hot needles of agony searing into his mental processes as he broke the contact.

Turakhin was not so fortunate.

His eyes wide and fixed upon the stygian depths, he simply vanished into the space between moments. The unassuming artefact dropped to the floor, clattering against the marble and letting out a faint, dying wheeze of quantum impossibility."

- The Lords of Borsis

The quote from Lords of Borsis really proves nothing. Reread at the quote; these weren’t “reactions,” The Tesseract Labyrinth has an entrancing aesthetic to it that trapped and imprisoned Turakhin. The “whirling through infinite fractal loops” were likely the labyrinthine web of “circuitry” described in another description for the Tesseract Labyrinths:

"“Each one is a cube, roughly the size of a Space Marine’s fist, covered in a precise geometric web of circuitry."

- Grey Knights

There are other quotes which also better elaborate the designs on the Tesseract:

"On an altar contained within a framework-globe of interlinked Chaos stars, Malik spotted the piece of ancient xenos technology that the strike master had described to him. It was small enough to be held in a gauntlet. A midnight black polyhedron in slick motion, with sections continually revolving, unlocking and interlocking to form new shapes. With moving edges outlined in an eye-stinging green radiance, the alien object hinted at a strange source of energy within.

This was the Tesseraqt – the object Omizhar Vohk had described to Lord Occam and Lord Occam to the legionnaire. Understanding it to be some kind of containment field generator, Malik tried to get a better look. Goura Shengk’s Word Bearers had stolen the artefact from the Inquisition and returned it to the Shrine of Iron: now Dark Mechanicum priests, diabolists and daemon creatures had taken an interest in the dread item. Bombarding it with curse-fields, rancid augurs and ritual ceremony, the catacomb archivists were intent on finding a way into the piece of alien technology."

- Sons of the Hydra

"Occam reached into an armoured pouch on his belt and retrieved an object heavy with its own alien darkness. The alien Tesseraqt Malik had retrieved from the bowels of the Ghalmek’s polar cathedral. The black cube moved continually, sections opening and interlocking with one another in perpetual and fluid movement. The cracks in between the moving pieces glowed green with alien power. Occam knew it to be the generator of some exotic containment field – a piece of xenos technology that the Lord Dominatus desired for his own nefarious needs. Goura Shengk, however, had informed Occam that the Tesseraqt already contained a powerful entity in its alien field – a monstrous daemon that the diabolists and Dark Mechanicum priests of Unholy Ghalmek had made preparations to receive."

- Sons of the Hydra

"“Zahiros ran at the Judicator. The Judicator trapped his blade again but Zahiros kept going, throwing his full weight into the necron. A Space Marine at full run was too great a force for even the necron to stop dead and the Judicator fell against the staff, knocking the cube to the floor.

The patterns inscribed into its surface formed a labyrinth. For a moment Zahiros could not look away from the cube as his eyes were forced to follow the endless paths, seeking a way out. But the heat of the pain blurred his vision and the spell was broken.”"

- The World Engine

As one can see here the Tesseract Labyrinth has flowing geometric and labyrinthine patterns that constantly are in motion. I could argue this is the actual labyrinth but that's not pertinent to this conversation. Their reaction was one of being entranced by the fractal-patterns that emanate from the surface of the Tesseract Labyrinth which, being operational and at use in the moment, draws them in and captures them, not them shuddering in insanity and confusion at its purported higher dimensional nature.

So it's not impossible and nonsensical for something to reside in multiple pocket dimensions, even if it sounds nonsensical to us this is the Necrons who do crazy and twisted sciences anyways. The word Tesseract is used for various technologies which don't rely on spatial dimensions too so that's a moot point.