User talk:Toughpigs

'''Please post new messages at the top of the page. Thanks!'''

Anonymous Edits
Hi Danny. This is User:Sarrc, the only active admin from the Transformers Fanon wiki. I remember you saying something on the Transformers wiki about disabling anonymous edits, and I think that's something we'd be interested in implimenting. Our wiki is very small, and only has one or two editors at a time, so it's hard to form any real consensus, but we have NEVER had a positive experience with an IP editor. With a fanon wiki there are no anonymous elves coming in and correcting spelling and grammar in the night, people are writing fan fiction they want credit for. On a fanon wiki IPs are pretty much just vandals, and people who make very fast crappy articles. It's impossible to talk to these people, because their IP may change the next day, and they never see the three warnings you leave not to change other people's fan fiction. I think turning off anonymous edits would be something that would fit the overall theme and mission of the site. Thanks. --Sarrc 14:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the floating-IP thing can be a real problem. I'll go visit your site and help you out. I'll see you over there... -- Danny (talk ) 14:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Domains
Everything else currently brewing aside, I and the other admins of the Creatures Wiki, and others are still waiting for a reasonable explanation as to why Wikia has claimed creatureswiki.com and calls this a "routine" thing that doesn't merit discussion with the community. This domain name has value to us and we want to talk to someone about why Wikia thinks this is an OK thing to do. As GR says, this seems roughly equivalent to you starting a site on some hosting company and finding out later that they bought the most relevant domain for your site, claiming that it was to "prevent it from being bought by squatters," and then saying that you don't actually own the site. Can you please talk to us honestly about this or find someone else who is willing to? *This* is the thing I am angriest about. The ad changes are seriously annoying to us, but the acquisition of relevant domains like this one just seems really underhanded and smacks of extortion. ElasticMuffin 19:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Unless you don't get talk page notices for some odd reason or have been too busy (in which case I offer a full apology), I am having a very hard time believing you have not seen this message yet given the several messages you've written elsewhere in the intervening time. By all means contact me in the IRC channel or on any of my Wikia talkpages if you change your mind. ElasticMuffin 22:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry -- I'm actually writing a lengthy response to your question, and I'm getting distracted by pings in other places. I'll post my response in a couple minutes, and you'll see why it's been taking me so long. -- Danny (talk ) 23:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, here we go. This question isn't actually something that I have personal experience with -- I didn't know about it until you guys brought it up this weekend. But I can tell you what I think is going on.


 * I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding that's led to this concern. Apparently, your view is that there are two separate entities -- "Creatures Wiki" and "Wikia" -- which have different interests and may in fact be opposed to each other. Our operating assumption is that Creatures Wiki is a part of the larger Wikia community; every wiki is. We've been doing more lately to try to encourage people to see every wiki as linked aspects of a larger project -- spotlights, hubs, sites like Gaming.wikia. The more interconnection there is, the better it is for the entire community.


 * Now, I understand that this attitude has been evolving over time. When Creatures Wiki was founded in 2004, Wikicities was more of a loose aggregation of unrelated sites. There were so few topics at the time that there wasn't much cross-over between the communities. As the number of wikis has grown in the last couple of years, the connections between wikis have become more complex and interesting. There are a lot of people who contribute to multiple wikis -- often with one "home wiki", and several secondary wikis.


 * If Wikicities wikis were like independent city-states, then the modern Wikia is more like a nation of connected cities and towns. In human history, that kind of increase in organizational complexity fuels innovation and positive growth. When there are more connections between cities, then there's better communication, and increased trade. A good idea can start in one town and spread to others.


 * So my point is that Wikia considers the people of Creatures Wiki to have shared interests and a common identity with the people from Bionicle Wiki and Narutopedia and Vintage Dress Patterns. If we don't -- if we see every wiki as its own island, separate and inviolable -- then we're denying everyone the opportunity to grow into a larger and more complex meta-collaboration. We have a shared user database, so you can log in on one wiki and stay logged in wherever you go. We have spotlights and hubs to help people navigate from one wiki to another. If you're still seeing Creatures Wiki as an independent city-state, then you're missing out on a lot.


 * So let's get to the main issue -- the domain names. What happened was that we started seeing occasional people buying domain names and competing with Wikia wikis -- stuff like Wookieepedia.org, which is amusing but kind of annoying if people go there and think that that's the real Wookieepedia. Even more annoying, somebody bought Muppetwiki.com and turned it into a link farm.


 * It's fairly inexpensive to buy domain names, so Wikia took the step of buying up some domain names, to make sure that we didn't see any more Muppetwiki.coms. I don't know why they don't redirect -- it probably just didn't occur to somebody. This wasn't a big project or anything; just something that someone thought would be helpful.


 * So the question is: Will Wikia give these domains "back" to the community? There are a couple odd things about that question. One is that Wikia didn't take anything that anybody owned. Anybody can buy a domain name -- the people who made Muppetwiki.com did. I assume that you didn't buy Creatureswiki.com years ago because you figured that Creatures Wiki was part of Wikia, and you didn't need to spend the money on a domain name.


 * The other thing that's weird is the question: Which community? You're implying that there is a specific set of individuals with a legal and moral right to own the domain name. Who are those individuals?


 * Sgeo, the founder of Creatures Wiki and presumably the person who invented the name, hasn't been active on the wiki since the end of 2006, with a couple more edits in 2007. There are ten people listed as sysops and bureaucrats, some of whom haven't edited since 2005. Of the top 50 contributors to Creatures Wiki, four have made edits in the last month. So who's the rightful owner of that domain name? The original founder? The top ten all-time contributors? The four contributors who are currently active? If somebody new comes along today and makes some edits, do they get a share?


 * So that's the best response that I can come up with. If you want to get into more details about how to buy a domain name from Wikia, then I'll hook you up with someone who can give you more information. Feel free to e-mail me at toughpigs at gmail.com, and I'll connect you. -- Danny (talk ) 23:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, you may want to look at the Ownership policy, which says, "The wikis are owned by the communities. No one user owns any wiki on Wikia. Founders are those who requested a wiki be created, but ownership of that wiki resides with the community as a whole, not only with the founder." That's been a Wikia policy since January 2005, and I assume that people are aware of it. -- Danny (talk ) 23:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That is not really applicable when Wikia grabs domains that are relevant and valuable to a Wiki. But anyway, thanks, and check your e-mail.  :)  ElasticMuffin 00:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ElasticMuffin has things mostly covered here, but I thought I should note again - since it still seems to be a common topic of confusion - that there are laws relating to the gaining of exclusive rights in marks. For services, it is those who take steps to advertise the service to the target market who gain rights to its use for that purpose. This makes sense, because it is they who is doing the work of establishing its meaning. Wikia has tended to leave this to the founding members of the site, and so it is the founding members who (normally) would gain the most right in the marks - not because they came up with it, but because they promoted it.
 * Yes, anyone can buy a domain name, in that there will be nothing to stop them; but that does not mean they gain the legal right to use it in a confusing manner, or to withhold it from those who have established a mark in the hope of profit. I hope Wikia understands that more clearly going forwards.
 * As for which community, that's easy. I was the person most responsible for promoting the Creatures Wiki. Indeed, it's almost the perfect example: I posted most of the stuff I'd done on Wikia itself, and was later asked by Wikia to flesh it out for what became Help:Attracting Contributors. There was also a certain presentation I made right in front of several members of the community team. It's hard to see how Wikia could have been more informed of who was establishing the site - as a mark, or otherwise. If there's any doubt, a quick glance at Wikia's stats would be sufficient - it's quite likely to be either the person with 37% of the edits, or the three active editors with over 50%.
 * On a more general note, what has caused some of the tension is Wikia's use of the word "community" to include people - such as themselves - who really aren't a significant part of it as far as the locals are concerned. I know Wikia feels differently, but looking at the stats, it's hard to argue that they really participate that much on individual sites. Now, there are a huge number of wikis here, and Wikia has more important things to do, which is fine. But Wikia shouldn't be surprised the communities find arguments based on "Wikia knows best for the community" somewhat specious, given that they haven't actually spent that much time in the places they want to change. It's rather like someone coming along and redesigning your front page because they felt they knew better how it should go . . . I tried to learn a lesson there, and I think perhaps Wikia needs to as well. --GreenReaper(talk) 07:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Laurence, I can't comment on legal issues; it's not my expertise. I know that you're talking to Gil over e-mail. If you have any legal questions, please address them to him. -- Danny (talk ) 13:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Whoa
Special:Editcount/Toughpigs. Do you edit in your sleep? -- 02:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm engaged in a cut-throat competition for the All-Time Most Edits on Wikia. I'm the only contestant. :) -- Danny (talk ) 04:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And I thought I had a lot. :) -- 00:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you're still a rookie. Keep working on it, youngster. :) -- Danny (talk ) 00:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Name Change
Danny,

May I ask a name change for Mario RPG Wiki to Mario RPGs Wiki? Mario RPG Wiki sounds as if the wiki is only about the game Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, when it actually is about the Mario RPG series.

Thank you,

Username:

Hello
Hey Danny!

I just visited the Polish Lemony Snicket Wiki and it was totaly abandoned. I would like to adopt the wiki and then rename it to "W Lemony Snicket Wiki" (already translated into Polish). It would also be great if you could help me talk [http://www.wikia.com/wiki/c:fr.snicket:User:Docteur_Orwell. Docteur Orwell] at the French "A Wiki of Unfortunate Events" into changing the name of her wiki to the new Lemony Snicket Wiki name translated to French (Le Wiki Lemony Snicket). I told her on her talk page that I would wait for a response from her before I changed the name, so I just want you to help me convince her. If you need to, use Google Translate.

Thanks,

Music Community
I was wondering if i could discuss with you some things to do with the music community, the music wiki and other wiki things, but it seems a bit too long to deal with all at once on a talkpage. Do you use skype? Anarchyuk(talk) 17:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Archive

 * User talk:Toughpigs/Archive