Board Thread:Support Requests - Getting Technical/@comment-452-20140917000024


 * tl;dr
 * If I convert all interwiki Wikia links to external links, I can search Special:LinkSearch for those links.


 * Can anyone think of any actual downsides to not using interwikia links?


 * Intro
 * I use the term "Interwikia links" to mean "Interwiki links to other Wikia wikis".
 * I am asking only about their use on Wikia. The reasons other mediawiki projects use them may or may not be relevant here.
 * This is not a question about the merit of linking to external sources, or their reliability.
 * I am not trying to convince others to not use them, nor I am asking to be convinced to use them.
 * I am asking for suggestions of why they should be used, and I will evaluate whether each reason is relevant to me.
 * I am aware that "That's the way everyone does it" is a common reason for doing things. I am questioning whether there is any reason to use them here on Wikia, so the response "Because that's the way everyone does it" is not helpful.
 * Doing things because "it's the way it's done" without understanding why is a bad habit. Read about it, or a funnier version of it. The point of this parable is that if no-one knows why "things are done this way", then it should be asked why things are done that way.

I do not know why "things are done this way", so I am asking "why", and whether there is a reason to continue doing things this way.

Based on the facts I already know, I have formed the opinion that "I do not know of any reasons to use Interwiki links", and I fully explain the facts behind my opinion below. If I am presented with additional relevant facts, my opinion will change.
 * Others are not required to agree with (or like) my opinion.
 * I am not requesting anyone's opinion, I am only requesting facts.
 * I will reply to facts presented, I will avoid replying to anyone's opinion, as that is not the purpose of this thread.

Since I'm only human, which is not too far away from being a monkey, I may have overlooked something, which is why I am posting this to ask for additional facts I do not know.


 * Main Question
 * Does anyone know of any reasons to favour inter-Wikia links over external links to other Wikia wikis?
 * Does anyone know of any wikis (Wikia or otherwise) with written policies on the matter?
 * I'm really only interested in policies which have justifications outlined, because policies without explanations are not very useful.

Using interwiki links may be a good idea elsewhere, but that does not automatically mean they are a good idea on Wikia, so I am looking for reasons.

I've searched, but cannot find anywhere stating a reason why interwiki links should be preferred, or indeed anywhere stating they're preferred at all. The help pages state that they exist, but not why they should be used.

Help:Interwiki links explains how to use them, but lacks any reason why. It mentions "Interwiki links [...] simplify the maintenance of links if a wiki later changes its address.".
 * Redirects are left when Wikia wikis are renamed, so this point is irrelevant here.

Meta:Help:Interwiki_linking has a "Interwiki versus external" section, but it only lists disadvantages.
 * The fact that it lists disadvantages at all without a single advantage tends to indicate that there are no advantages.

Special:LinkSearch doesn't work with interwiki links, as noted on Meta:Help:Interwiki_linking.
 * Special:LinkSearch for *.wikia.com currently shows 61673 external wikia links here.

It has been suggested that reducing the number of links on Special:LinkSearch could be seen as an advantage because it makes it easier to monitor.
 * I disagree with that conclusion, as does the documentation.

Unlike many other special pages, Special:LinkSearch is not "a list of things to fix", it is there for looking up links, so using interwiki links makes Special:LinkSearch less useful, as I would not be able to search for links to ghostbusters.wikia. (And indeed, interwiki links are missing from that search now.)

This fact has all but convinced me that it's a good idea to start replacing interwikia links with external links on the wikis I frequent, so I'm trying to find reasons I shouldn't.

I asked Wikia Staff in May, but the response was basically that it was up to the user, and the only suggested reasons for using them were:
 * Wikia Staff response
 * Hiding external link icons
 * If this is desired, it can easily be done with CSS.
 * I personally see the absence of external link icons as a disadvantage, as I believe off-wiki links should be clearly marked, and have already used CSS to restore them for interwiki links.
 * Additionally, Slimer (Slimer) has no icon anyway.


 * Shorter wikitext
 * If you already know the exact name of the page you want to link, then it's certainly going to save you time to type Slimer instead of Slimer . But if you're copy/pasting a link, it's going to take more time to convert it to an interwiki link. Even more so to actively change it after the fact.


 * It is a fact that "interwiki links are shorter than external links", but I do not see this as an "advantage", and the benefit of having shorter links is not worth not indexing them on Special:LinkSearch.


 * Other Suggestions

I've now had feedback from 4 different people, here are all the suggested reasons so far:


 * Because they exist
 * Don't get me wrong, I love shortcuts - I've made a bunch of shortcut templates to save time for myself and others - but the fact that a shortcut exists doesn't automatically mean it should be compulsory to use it, especially if using said "shortcut" would take longer than the alternative with no other benefit.


 * Reducing the number of links of Special:LinkSearch
 * Covered above, this is the opposite of my goal.


 * I see this reason as being analogous to using external links "to reduce the number of pages on Special:WhatLinksHere". Both of these pages exist to monitor where links are used, so using a type of link which isn't indexed works against the purpose of each page.


 * SEO
 * I've checked, and this is a false reason, all external wikipedia.org and wikia.com links appear to be whitelisted and not have "rel=nofollow". For example:


 * http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/Slimer
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slimer
 * http://www.ghostbusters.com/
 * The last link is the only one with an external link icon and "rel=nofollow".


 * "You are leaving this site" popup
 * Some wikis have this, but it is not the default. This point may be a reason for Memory Alpha to use them, but it doesn't apply to me.


 * Interwiki table
 * If a wiki wanted to change which of 2 similar wikis they were affiliated with, then changing "w:c:ghostbusters" to point to "the-real-ghostbusters.wikia" would definitely be useful. However, I assume that is something that only Wikia Staff could do, and something they're incredibly unlikely to do, because w:c:ghostbusters should always point to ghostbusters.wikia on all wikis.
 * Edit: Wikia Staff have confirmed that the destination of "w:c:" links cannot be changed.


 * Interwiki links should only exist for trusted sites
 * Interwiki links automatically exist for all Wikia wikis, individual wikis do not get a say in which interwiki links are available to them. (Edit: As far as all help pages indicate.)


 * Whether or not interwiki links point to trusted sites is not relevant to this topic, as I am specifically asking for downsides of changing them to external links so they appear on Special:LinkSearch. "Trusted" or not, they should be searchable.


 * External links section
 * Whether or not external links are only used in external links sections is not relevant to this topic, as I am specifically asking for downsides of changing them to external links so they appear on Special:LinkSearch. Where-ever they are used in an article, they should be searchable.


 * Keeping external links together in an external link section would remove the need to display the external link icon, but I think it's more useful to use them inline as needed, than to have to scroll down to find them.


 * "if it ain't broke don't 'fix' it".
 * It is broke: interwiki links are not listed on Special:LinkSearch. I want to 'fix' this, but  I am asking this here in order to find out if 'fixing' this will 'break' something else.


 * People might change them back to interwikia links, or keep adding new interwikia links
 * The same thing applies to every shortcut template, so the response would be exactly the same as if someone were to change a template to a tag, which is: "Welcoming them to the wiki and politely informing them of local policies and linking to a page which outlines the reasons behind the policy".
 * If a user adds a new tag to an article, I usually switch it to use the template the next time I edit that article. If a user is adding a lot of tags, I contact them and inform them of the benefits of using the  template.


 * Changing all of the links / educating new users is too much work.
 * That is my problem, I'm not asking you to do anything.


 * A bot can generate a list of interwikia links.
 * Special:LinkSearch is a built-in function which is available to everyone at any time. Bots are not.  Bots can be used to replicate a number of built-in functions, but built-in functions should be preferred using a bot to do the same thing.


 * The API can generate a list of interwiki links, and external links aren't listed.
 * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Iwbacklinks
 * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Iwlinks
 * This point may be relevant to people who want to use the API to do this.
 * But Special:LinkSearch is a built-in function which is available to everyone at any time, and has a wildcard.
 * For my purposes and goals, removing them from the API results and adding them to the LinkSearch results is fine.


 * Peer Pressure and Group-Think.
 * AKA "All the cool kids use them"
 * Response: "Why do all the cool kids use them?"
 * AKA "That's the way things are done around here"
 * Response: "Why is it the way things are done?"
 * AKA "That's the way everyone does it"
 * Response: "Why it is the way everyone does it?"
 * AKA "It's a standard/convention"
 * Response: "Why it is a standard or convention?"
 * AKA "That's how they do it on wikipedia"
 * Response: "What are the reasons wikipedia uses them?"
 * AKA "That's how they do it on the Blakestone Wiki"
 * Response: "What are the reasons Blakestone Wiki uses them?"

From the outset, I was perfectly well aware that "That's the way everyone does it". The question has always been: why? Answering the question "Why is this the way everyone does it?" with "That's the way everyone does it" just shows that the reason is unknown.

Edit: Additionally, Help:Making a successful wikia says:
 * A small wikia has different priorities and a different structure, and it needs different rules. "They do it this way on Wikipedia" is not a good way to run a small wikia. Find what works for you, your wikia, and your community, and then run with that. You don’t need to stick to what may seem like a preordained model.


 * Back to the question
 * If I convert all interwiki Wikia links to external links, I can search Special:LinkSearch for those links.


 * Can anyone think of any actual downsides to not using interwikia links? 