Forum:Global Block Log

Eglinton was blocked globally, according to this. Is there a Global Block Log like there is on Wikimedia Meta-Wiki? Thanks, Head.Boy.Hog (Talk To Me)  11:04, June 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nope, on Wikia all global blocks are done in secret. Wouldn't accountability be terrible? 13:28, June 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * To clarify, there is a log but only staff/halpers/vstf can view it. 13:32, June 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * The specific revision where Brandon Rhea mentions the global block of Elgington is [ here]. I wonder what you have to do to be blocked globally? I was wondering what happened to that user. He was helping out on Logo Creation wiki, but dropped off the radar. Wikia should put some kind of note on wikis where a user has been active if they decide to globally block someone. Having a hidden log is pretty much against the wiki spirit as well. -- Fandyllic (talk &middot; contr) 13 Jun 2011 1:25 PM Pacific


 * You make some good points, Fandyllic. We had some minor problems with that user resulting in temporarary block. Once the blocks expired, he never came back. But, because I thought that he would, overall, be a good contributor, I wanted to remind him that his short-term block had expired and to encourage his return. Then I stumbled across [ this]. Wikia needs some centralized noticeboards like they have over at the Wikimedia Foundation projects: one for global blocks and another to notify us when there are Wikia-wide system issues (like MediaWiki:Common.js not loading properly for the Wikia (i.e., Oasis) skin). In keeping with the wiki spirit (as referred to by Fandyllic), we should strive here at Wikia for the sort of transparency that exists at Wikipedia with their incident system and their Arbitration Committee. — Spike Toronto  9:09PM EDT, June 13, 2011
 * Wikia isn't striving for an open system, they just want to make as much money as possible. If you could see the global block log you'd see how many times Wikia people have abused it (cases like this). But yea, according to their terms of use, they can block you whenever they feel like it. I bet that I'll soon be blocked for speaking up against the almighty Wikia myself, but you did ask :P 02:55, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

First off, let me start with: we are not Wiki(p|m)edia. We are not subject to their rules, or policies, or judgements or rulings. While we do try to model ourselves against their (usually) shining example of "how things should be" on a wiki, being a separate entity, with different goals, ideas, environment and more over with Wikia being a private company and not a publicly accountable/run foundation, we can choose to do things our own way, and for us to decide exactly what the "wiki spirit" means.

That aside, there are many reasons why to NOT have a public block log. Most notably being, not advertising who/what we are blocking. Our Phalanx system covers IPs, Usernames, but also regex based name blocks. If it were easily determined what we had just blocked, you could easily evade said regex name block. Its akin to "not feeding the trolls" by not advertising on their user pages with giant templates that they have been blocked. The same reason that the checkuser isnt publiclly viewable on wikipedia, our logs of global blocks can also possibly disern a user-IP relationship.

Another point, currently the block reasons are currently only displayed to the user that it affects, and sometimes contain specific information that we would not want to be shown to other users (more 'dont feed the trolls')

This same system also covers a nother of other things, like page titles, page contents, edit summaries and wiki creation related things, that for the same reasons as above, if you can see where the blocks are, you can sidestep them. I know its usually a bad policy, but sometimes obsurity HELPS security (just as long as thats not your only defense).

One of the reasons that the logs of the Phalanx system are hard to make public, is that the logs are not stored in a "wiki" log table, but in a centralized database that is not part of any single wiki. It would require a number of code and permission restructuring to allow a non-actionable user to view the interface, and the logs within, but not beable to affect blocks. We might look into making this possible in the future, but right now, we have no desire to do so, and there is little information in there that is useful for the general public.

As for the comment about displaying record of a global block on the local wiki... last time we looked into this, there were a number of performance reasons that idea was abandoned. I'll take another look, as our hardware infrastructure has improved, as has mediawiki. If it is possible, it would only be possible to display if its an exact match, such as block on a single IP, or an single exact username, not users that are globally blocked as part of a partial regex block. We shall see.

As for the comment about "accountabilty", remember that this info isnt hidden. Any VSTF/Helper/Staff can see this tool, and its logs. Thats nearly 200 people under the umbrella of Wikia that can see it, and thats quite a bit of accountability. The info isnt secret, its just not public. We do regularly review the blocks being added, and keep an eye on things, but you need to trust that the people making said blocks are making the choices that need to be made to do their jobs.

Making some/all of this information more open is a goal of Wikia, but maybe not an urgent pressing need. We are working on providing an appropriate place display this to you. You'll start to see things show up across the site in this coming year, such as a better user information panel, better block messages, and tools to see where you are blocked, and where you have user rights (admin/crat/etc). One of the ideas of making that information more accessable, is also a better interface to see if you are actually blocked, and if its a global block, or just on that wiki, and the correct place to refute it.

We do want to make this information "open to you", just maybe not "public".

Thanks for understanding. --Uberfuzzy 12:44, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant accountability to the community, so that we could determine ourselves whether or not an action is appropriate. But I guess in a system that appoints users to the various staff/helper/vstf positions without consulting the Wikia community in any way, asking for transparency might just be an unreasonable goal. 16:00, June 14, 2011 (UTC)