Forum:BDSM

A user recently came to #wikia to discuss the possibility of founding a BDSM at bdsm.wikia.com. It would be an index of BDSM resources as well as original articles beyond the scope of Wikipedia, similar to what WikiFur does for the furry community. Due to the adult nature of this subject and community, slightly more so than Spanking Art, some content and images might be in borderline violation of the Terms of use, specifically Prohibited content. So we the community team have two questions, mostly for the policy makers behind us (Gil), but also for general opinions from the community. The questions are:

1. Would such a wiki be acceptable? If so, what would the limitations be in the image content? The line between "Pornography" and "information" is fine indeed. This for example, would be on the extreme end of illustrated articles: Prince_Albert_piercing.

2. We push the line with Spanking Art and Wikifur, but this most likely will upset google adsense if any users complain. To Gil specifically: Would adbrite and/or internal wikia ads be an acceptable alternative for wikis based on more mature subjects? Would this be technically possible?

Niche wikis of this nature can often turn out highly successful. Details by requestor to follow. --Splarka (talk) 06:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Here is the proposed content of the bdsm wiki:


 * A central index to the sites discussing or illustrating the practices of bondage and discipline, domination and submission, sadism and masochism, and fetishism.


 * Content would include links, and original articles by knowledgeable individuals on their experience and practices, both essay and collaborative.


 * Although this site would not allow itself to be come a repository for pornographic images, it would be best if it was not forced to shy away from images that might contain nudity which illustrates specific points of the culture.


 * I would also be open to discuss in more detail the specifics of content allowed under google adsense, and possible alternative advertising if this proves to be against their policies (such as adbrite or internal wikia ads)--Daniel X 06:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

My general philosphy on life is
 * We should allow things that are not hate or pornographic images that can be seen by minors
 * Free speech is a cornerstone of democracies, and speech that makes people uncomfortable is where you really see if a country or country can "take the heat" of free speech
 * BDSM obviously makes some people uncomfortable, so I would take the google ads off - Adbrite has a "mature audiences" ad section we could use if we wanted to. Even if they don't, I'd host it with just links to other wikia
 * We could allow it to be a private password protected wiki if they are passionate about images. In that case, we would need to find a way for the administrators to verify that a user is 18.  Not sure how to do that :-)  Open to suggestions, like whether paypal has that information and the admins would be responsible for charging $0.50 to get a password to insure the user is 18...
 * I think a DMOZ style directory would be VERY cool and I would be extremely supportive of something like that as we would learn what tools the editors need to have it work well  color="Blue">Gil (color="Blue" size="1">talk) 07:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't see a problem with this, even with Google ads. I think you can just take a look at the existing competition, Whipipedia, to see what it would probably be like. If anything, a wiki has shown how normal furry fandom can actually be (in highly relative terms :-) rather than accentuating its sensational sides. BDSM would probably be the same. In fact, my major concern would be that it could be hard to compete with Whipipedia, as they are already reasonably well-established, if not on the level of WikiFur.
 * I suspect Google will complain only if its ad makers complain. A look at their ad policy finds these:
 * Prostitution: Advertising is not permitted for the promotion of prostitution.
 * Sexual Content (Adult): Advertising is not permitted for the promotion of child pornography, any sexually suggestive content involving children, or other non-consensual material.
 * Isn't BDSM meant to be safe, sane and consensual? I see seveal ads on Google that are quite likely to be picked up on a BDSM Wikia. I think that Google's guidelines are intended to be against porn sites, not user-edited informational sites, and that they will be interpreted liberally as long as it's real people clicking the ads.
 * I think this could work just like any other highly dedicated community could work. Wikia's offering will need to differentiate itself somehow - the original articles/essays will probably help with that. Images could be an issue, but you don't really need images for everything, and you can have labelled diagrams and the like, I'm sure. Other than that it seems like a good idea. --GreenReaper(talk) 07:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Depending on how explicit this will get, I would be happier if there were a gateway page. Just a simple "I'm over 18" or "I'm aware this is an adult site" button would be fine.  But it would have to show before the first page anyone came to, and not again.  So it would need some changes that might take time to impelement.  -- sannse (talk) 08:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * For the gateway page, how about a cookie? MediaWiki finds the cookie, page is accessabe. MediaWiki dosen't find the cookie, They are sent to a page like you describe using a interface similar to that used on user logins to redirect the person to the page they were trying to access. It's already standard practice to have cookies enabled while browsing a wiki. Dantman (Talk) 22:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Could be done in Javascript, I'm sure. Just make a big layer that covers everything else if it doesn't find its cookie. --GreenReaper(talk) 04:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Javascript wouldn't suit MediaWiki well in this case. If someone had JS off then when they went to the wiki they would never get the warning page, and that wouldn't be a good thing. Also, the page has to load first so you would actualy see the page for a bit before the JS kicked in warning you. Dantman (Talk) 06:27, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Re Javascript wouldn't suit MediaWiki well in this case.: the first item: That is true, without JS, there can't be a warning (an alternative is to make the wiki blank in CSS, but then only JS users could see it). As for the second point, I have solved that with this JS to some degree:

// ============================================================ // BEGIN Mature content warning cookies, by Splarka

var matureuser = parseInt( getCookie('maturecookie') ); if ( isNaN(matureuser) ) matureuser = 0 if (matureuser==0) { document.write('/*<![CDATA[*/ #globalWrapper { visibility: hidden } /*]]>*/ '); }

function mature { if (matureuser==0) { useranswer = window.confirm('Warning: This site may contain mature content.\nClick OK to display content.\n\nIf you have cookies enabled, this message will only appear once.'); if (useranswer==true) { var bodyContent = document.getElementById("globalWrapper"); bodyContent.style.visibility = 'visible'; setCookie('maturecookie', 1); }   } } addOnloadHook(mature);

// Cookie helpers, stolen from en.wiktionary, adapted function setCookie(cookieName, cookieValue) { var today = new Date; var expire = new Date; var nDays = 365; expire.setTime( today.getTime + (3600000 * 24 * nDays) ); document.cookie = cookieName + "=" + escape(cookieValue) + ";path=/" + ";expires="+expire.toGMTString; }

function getCookie(cookieName) { var start = document.cookie.indexOf( cookieName + "=" ); if ( start == -1 ) return ""; var len = start + cookieName.length + 1; if ( ( !start ) &&   ( cookieName != document.cookie.substring( 0, cookieName.length ) ) ) {       return ""; } var end = document.cookie.indexOf( ";", len ); if ( end == -1 ) end = document.cookie.length; return unescape( document.cookie.substring( len, end ) ); }

function deleteCookie(cookieName) { if ( getCookie(cookieName) ) { document.cookie = name + "=" + ";expires=Thu, 01-Jan-1970 00:00:01 GMT"; } }

// END Mature content warning cookies. // ============================================================


 * If the user has no cookie set, this script shows a blank page (via css) before the page loads (as it is executed in the header), and on page load it pops up a javascript query. If the user selects [ok], it sets a cookie and shows the content. If the user allows cookies, they only get this message once a year (or once per browser/PC, or whenever they clear cookies). It isn't perfect, but it should help. We can use it until an extension can be made (if needed). It works in all Mozilla and IE browsers we've tried (not many). You can try it out at http://communitytest.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Monobook.js --Splarka (talk) 10:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Update
Update: it has just been created: w:c:BDSM. --Splarka (talk) 10:59, 27 September 2006 (UTC)