Board Thread:Support Requests - Getting Technical/@comment-452-20140917000024


 * tl;dr
 * If I convert all interwiki Wikia links to external links, I can search Special:LinkSearch for those links.


 * Can anyone think of any actual downsides to not using interwikia links?


 * Intro
 * I use the term "Interwikia links" to mean "Interwiki links to other Wikia wikis".
 * I am asking only about their use on Wikia. The reasons other mediawiki projects use them may or may not be relevant here.
 * This is not a question about the merit of linking to external sources, or their reliability.
 * I am not trying to convince others to not use them, nor I am asking to be convinced to use them.
 * I am asking for suggestions of why they should be used, and I will evaluate whether each reason is relevant to me.
 * I am aware that "That's the way everyone does it" is a common reason for doing things. I am questioning whether there is any reason to use them here on Wikia, so the response "Because that's the way everyone does it" is not helpful.
 * Doing things because "it's the way it's done" without understanding why is a bad habit. Read about it, or a funnier version of it. The point of this parable is that if no-one knows why "things are done this way", then it should be asked why things are done that way.

I do not know why "things are done this way", so I am asking "why", and whether there is a reason to continue doing things this way.

Based on the facts I already know, I have formed the opinion that "I do not know of any reasons to use Interwiki links", and I fully explain the facts behind my opinion below. If I am presented with additional relevant facts, my opinion will change.
 * Others are not required to agree with (or like) my opinion.
 * I am not requesting anyone's opinion, I am only requesting facts.

Since I'm only human, which is not too far away from being a monkey, I may have overlooked something, which is why I am posting this to ask for additional facts I do not know.


 * Main Question
 * Does anyone know of any reasons to favour inter-Wikia links over external links to other Wikia wikis?
 * Does anyone know of any wikis (Wikia or otherwise) with written policies on the matter?
 * I'm really only interested in policies which have justifications outlined, because policies without explanations are not very useful.

Using interwiki links may be a good idea elsewhere, but that does not automatically mean they are a good idea on Wikia, so I am looking for reasons.

I've searched, but cannot find anywhere that states a reason why interwiki links should be preferred, or indeed anywhere that states they're preferred at all. The help pages state that they exist, but not why they should be used.

Help:Interwiki link explains how to use them, but lacks any reason why. It mentions "Interwiki links [...] simplify the maintenance of links if a wiki later changes its address.".
 * Redirects are left when Wikia wikis are renamed, so this point is irrelevant here.

Meta:Help:Interwiki_linking has a "Interwiki versus external" section, but it only lists disadvantages.
 * The fact that it lists disadvantages at all without a single advantage tends to indicate that there are no advantages.

Special:LinkSearch doesn't work with interwiki links, as noted on Meta:Help:Interwiki_linking.
 * Special:LinkSearch for *.wikia.com currently shows 61673 external wikia links here.

It has been suggested that reducing the number of links on Special:LinkSearch could be seen as an advantage because it makes it easier to monitor.
 * I disagree with that conclusion, as does the documentation.

Unlike many other special pages, Special:LinkSearch is not "a list of things to fix", it is there for looking up links, so using interwiki links makes Special:LinkSearch less useful, as I would not be able to search for links to ghostbusters.wikia. (And indeed, interwiki links are missing from that search now.)

This fact has all but convinced me that it's a good idea to start replacing interwikia links with external links on the wikis I frequent, so I'm trying to find reasons I shouldn't.

I asked Wikia Staff in May, but the response was basically that it was up to the user, and the only suggested reasons for using them were:
 * Wikia Staff response
 * Hiding external link icons
 * If this is desired, it can easily be done with CSS.
 * I personally see the absence of external link icons as a disadvantage, as I believe off-wiki links should be clearly marked, and have already used CSS to restore them for interwiki links.
 * Additionally, http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/Slimer has no icon anyway.


 * Shorter wikitext
 * If you already know the exact name of the page you want to link, then it's certainly going to save you time to type Slimer . But if you're copy/pasting a link, it's going to take more time to convert it to an interwiki link. Even more so to actively change it after the fact.


 * It is a fact that "interwiki links are shorter than external links", but I do not see this as an "advantage", and the benefit of having shorter links is not worth not indexing them on Special:LinkSearch.


 * Other Suggestions

I've now had feedback from 4 different people, here are all the suggested reasons so far:


 * Because they exist
 * Don't get me wrong, I love shortcuts - I've made a bunch of shortcut templates to save time for myself and others - but the fact that a shortcut exists doesn't automatically mean it should be compulsory to use it, especially if using said "shortcut" would take longer than the alternative with no other benefit.


 * Reducing the number of links of Special:LinkSearch
 * Covered above, this is the opposite of my goal.


 * I see this reason as being analogous to using external links "to reduce the number of pages on Special:WhatLinksHere". Both of these pages exist to monitor where links are used, so using a type of link which isn't indexed works against the purpose of each page.


 * SEO
 * I've checked, and this is a false reason, all external wikipedia.org and wikia.com links appear to be whitelisted and not have "rel=nofollow". For example:


 * http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/Slimer
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slimer
 * http://www.ghostbusters.com/
 * The last link is the only one with an external link icon and "rel=nofollow".


 * "You are leaving this site" popup
 * Some wikis have this, but it is not the default. This point may be a reason for Memory Alpha to use them, but it doesn't apply to me.


 * Interwiki table
 * If a wiki wanted to change which of 2 similar wikis they were affiliated with, then changing "w:c:ghostbusters" to point to "the-real-ghostbusters.wikia" would definitely be useful. However, I assume that is something that only Wikia Staff could do, and something they're incredibly unlikely to do, because w:c:ghostbusters should always point to ghostbusters.wikia on all wikis.
 * Edit: Wikia Staff have confirmed that the destination of "w:c:" links cannot be changed.


 * Interwiki links should only exist for trusted sites
 * Interwiki links automatically exist for all Wikia wikis, individual wikis do not get a say in which interwiki links are available to them. (Edit: As far as all help pages indicate.)


 * Whether or not interwiki links point to trusted sites is not relevant to this topic, as I am specifically asking for downsides of changing them to external links so they appear on Special:LinkSearch. "Trusted" or not, they should be searchable.


 * External links section
 * Whether or not external links are only used in external links sections is not relevant to this topic, as I am specifically asking for downsides of changing them to external links so they appear on Special:LinkSearch. Where-ever they are used in an article, they should be searchable.


 * Keeping external links together in an external link section would remove the need to display the external link icon, but I think it's more useful to use them inline as needed, than to have to scroll down to find them.


 * "if it ain't broke don't 'fix' it".
 * It is broke: interwiki links are not listed on Special:LinkSearch. I want to 'fix' this, but  I am asking this here in order to find out if 'fixing' this will 'break' something else.


 * Changing all of the links is too much work.
 * That is my problem, I'm not asking you to change anything.


 * People might change external links to interwikia links.
 * The same thing applies to every template, so the response would be exactly the same as if someone were to change a template to a tag, which is: "Welcoming them to the wiki and politely informing them of local policies and linking to a page which outlines the reasons behind the policy".
 * If a user adds a new tag to an article, I don't immediately change it, but will often switch it to use the template the next time I edit that article. If a user is adding a lot of tags, I contact them and inform them of the benefits of using the  template.


 * A bot can generate a list of interwikia links.
 * Special:LinkSearch is a built-in function which is available to everyone at any time. Bots are not.  Bots can be used to replicate a number of built-in functions, but built-in functions should be preferred using a bot to do the same thing.


 * Peer Pressure and Group-Think.
 * AKA "All the cool kids use them"
 * Response: "Why do all the cool kids use them?"
 * AKA "That's the way things are done around here"
 * Response: "Why is it the way things are done?"
 * AKA "That's the way everyone does it"
 * Response: "Why it is the way everyone does it?"
 * AKA "It's a standard/convention"
 * Response: "Why it is a standard or convention?"
 * AKA "That's how they do it on wikipedia"
 * Response: "What are the reasons wikipedia uses them?"
 * AKA "That's how they do it on the Blakestone Wiki"
 * Response: "What are the reasons Blakestone Wiki uses them?"

From the outset, I was perfectly well aware that "That's the way everyone does it". The question has always been: why? Answering the question "Why is this the way everyone does it?" with "That's the way everyone does it" just shows that the reason is unknown.

Edit: Additionally, Help:Making a successful wikia says:
 * A small wikia has different priorities and a different structure, and it needs different rules. "They do it this way on Wikipedia" is not a good way to run a small wikia. Find what works for you, your wikia, and your community, and then run with that. You don’t need to stick to what may seem like a preordained model.


 * Back to the question
 * If I convert all interwiki Wikia links to external links, I can search Special:LinkSearch for those links.


 * Can anyone think of any actual downsides to not using interwikia links?  