Forum:Stealing my pages...

I'm the admin of the Rune Factory wiki. There was already a Rune Factory Wiki when I started, so its naturally way above me in Google. Well, I've recently I've had a lot of info from Rune Factory four, and they've been copying dirrectly from my pages. Like here:

This is their version

This is mine (And mine was from before theres)

Its making me really frustrated, since I havent had nearly as much contributors as them, and I had to get all my infromation on my own... :( Is there anything I can do? Mai Is Me 00:23, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * The only thing you can do is request that they abide by the CC-BY-SA copyright rules (you can read more by clicking the CC-BY-SA link in the bottom right of every page) that Wikia abides by. CC-BY-SA 3.0 states that any information taken must be attributed to the original source. If they got the information from your site, they have to link back to it. If they refuse, then you'd have to involve staff.


 * This information is typically correct from Wikia -> offsite wiki. I am not sure how staff will deal with the situation if both wikis are hosted by Wikia. Technically, it should be dealt with the same as above. Rappy 00:27, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * On a side note, why are you making a separate wiki if there is already one about the topic? The community of Rune Factory fans would benefit most if the two wikis were merged. --Gardimuer { ʈalk } 00:36, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not "making" it right now, I've had it for almost a year now. Besides, that isn't the point... --Mai Is Me 00:45, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just merge the wikis together into the wiki that has more pages.I just think that's the fair way. AK777 00:58, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Uh, how would that be fair? I didn't do anything but add information to my wiki. The problem isn't with my choices. :P Mai Is Me 01:03, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * My understanding of a wiki's content is that any and all text is copyright of the author. Wikia can only host it by attributing ownership of that text which they do through page histories. Anyone who makes a change to an article can be identified through said history. Someone copying content over is breaking this copyright assuming they have not included a link back to the original page and attributed ownership of said material to the respective authors. In essence, the offending wiki (I haven't actually looked to see if they have bothered with attribution) is violating the law wikis are subject to.


 * If the content is not attributed back to you, you can either remove the content yourself, or, and this is much easier/better/likely to avoid edit wars, contact staff to have them take it down. I'm going to ignore the point about conflict of topic here. 01:17, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Removing the content is not the best action. Dialogue first would be. Removing it would just lead to edit wars then after no one would want to listen to reason. Rappy 01:21, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hey, would this (The bottom one) be a good reply? I don't really want to fight with him, since it's its not his fault... Mai Is Me 01:52, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I would also link CC-BY-SA to http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia:Licensing so they can read the license themselves. Rappy 01:54, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * How long should I wait for him to reply before I contact staff? Mai Is Me 16:04, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd give it at least a week or two (depending on whether or not he's actively editing) to make sure he sees the message. Rappy 16:20, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * If he edits, say today, but then just ignores it should I contact wikia? Mai Is Me 17:51, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * You should clarify that the wiki is perfectly within their rights to use their content, as long as they attribute it to your wiki. Once you've done that, wait for a reply (I'd also send a message to the user who's copying the content) - if after they've edited for a bit they havn't edited, feel free to contact staff --  Random Time  19:25, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Cåm's interpretation of the license is almost correct, but worth expanding. When you edit on Wikia, you licence the content under the Creative Commons BY-SA license. That gives anyone (not just Wikia) the permission to host the content if, and only if they attribute it to the original author. It also gives anyone permission to edit the work - as long as their edits are licensed under the original license (ergo, they attribute the original work to the original creator). This is normally done automatically in the history, or (if the content is copied from another wiki) - by a link in the edit summary and/or a template on that page saying where it was originally from. If they do not attribute (it is normally polite to ask first) - then you may remove - which, if it comes to this you should try contacting staff in the first instance, but you do have the legal defense of a DMCA letter (which you can adapt from Wikipedia's standard violation letter, if it gets that far - I doubt it will). --  Random Time  19:37, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Touching on a few points... Technically, attribution only in the edit summary shouldn't be sufficient... as the text isn't attributed on the page it's on but rather a page rarely visited (the page history). Second, Wikia uses CC-BY-SA 3.0, not the 2.0 that RT linked above. Details on CC-BY-SA 3.0 can be found here (I am not sure how much has changed from 2.0 to 3.0 though). Rappy 19:47, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's what I get for copying the first link I google, I doubt much has changed - but yes. Regarding the attribution, the license states that "The credit required by this Section 4(c) may be implemented in any reasonable manner;" - for myself, I'd be happy with a history attribution, but I can understand that most people would be happier with a link back to the original page. --  Random Time  20:00, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * My interpretation is that the attribution should be visible and not obscured on a history page... but I may be reading into it incorrectly. You can (I have previously) contact people at CC-BY-SA and find out if that is the case as it pertains to Wikia. Rappy 20:07, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * LOL. The photo is even the same file name. I would get so angry if that happened to me, someone stealing my pages. Jess     This is what dreams are made of  20:40, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd strongly disagree with Rappy's interpretation of the CC-BY-SA 3.0. Internal Wikia rules have long held that edit summary attribution is perfectly acceptable:
 * "Where such credit is commonly given through page histories (such as copying within Wikia), it is sufficient to give attribution in the edit summary, which is recorded in the page history, when importing the text."
 * Wikia's rules, naturally, are just a rewording of the license's rules. There, in section 4c, we find:
 * "The credit required by this Section 4(c) may be implemented in any reasonable manner; provided, however, that in the case of a Adaptation or Collection, at a minimum such credit will appear, if a credit for all contributing authors of the Adaptation or Collection appears, then as part of these credits and in a manner at least as prominent as the credits for the other contributing authors."
 * In other words, if edit histories are good enough for subsequent adapters of the work, they're good enough for attribution of the original import. The whole business of the visible template pointing back to the article on wikipedia, or wherever you obtained it, is not actually necessary.


 * As to the broader point of the thread, I would strongly urge Mai is me to reconsider merging "his/her" — and I put the words in quote causes possession is awfully difficult to prove in a wiki environment — project with the one that has so offended him/her. Yes, you've very technically been wronged, but at the end of the day, all our sites end with "wikia.com".  What you're doing is essentially the same as fighting over the boundary line between two unincorporated towns.  Be realistic.  There is no legal distinction between your two wikis, unless someone takes it to a court of law.  Even then, I doubt very strongly if Wikia is going let their network of communities set up strong boundaries.  Realistically, it's all Wikia.


 * As was said upthread, it is better in the long run that you simply join forces with "the other side", rather than engaging in a time-wasting effort to somehow define a difference with "the other guys". The goal should be to increase coverage of your subject matter, as rapidly and efficiently as possible. This can be best accomplished if you join forces and work together.


 * The other thing is that anyone could retrofit attribution onto the articles that have been "stolen", and you'd have no leg to stand on. It doesn't require the user who copied "your" work.  If I wanted to end this dispute right this second, all I'd have to do is log into "the other site" and start adding some attribution.


 * It's not like you'll ever be able to stop them from taking "your" stuff or retaining it or doing whatever they want to with it. You're basically fighting for a single line of attribution in a page history that ultimately will become buried so deep no one will care.   I'm honestly not sure why that's better than simply joining the other wiki and becoming such a dominant editor that everyone knows your name and your contributions to the community.


 * Being one of the prominent editors of a big wiki is a heck of a lot more rewarding than being the bureaucrat of a tiny offshoot. 21:06: Mon 21 May 2012


 * "'The credit required by this Section 4(c) may be implemented in any reasonable manner; provided, however, that in the case of a Adaptation or Collection, at a minimum such credit will appear, if a credit for all contributing authors of the Adaptation or Collection appears, then as part of these credits and in a manner at least as prominent as the credits for the other contributing authors.'"


 * That is the kicker. Wikia's quote from above... "'Where such credit is commonly given through page histories (such as copying within Wikia), it is sufficient to give attribution in the edit summary, which is recorded in the page history, when importing the text.'" is referring to the importation of a page from one wiki to another (in which, the history is typically intact) and therefore the authors are listed in the history. This is not the same case as copying/pasting content from one place to another.


 * WoWWiki and Wowpedia have dealt with Creative Commons on this subject in the past and the bottom line is, any page that has text that was taken from another source has to have attribution on that page (either by supplying the URL of the original and/or a URL for the history page to attribute the collective authors of the original work). Simply burying the attribution in a copy/paste in the edit summary does not attribute according to the license. I also have personal e-mails from Creative Commons stating this to be true. On top of that, the e-mail also states "'In order for this person to copy the text they are required to attribute you, and perhaps even release their own work under the same Share Alike license, if their use is considered a derivative of the original.'" which is not an issue when dealing with a Wikia -> Wikia copy. Rappy 22:01, May 21, 2012 (UTC)