Board Thread:Support Requests - Community Management/@comment-75.128.47.18-20160802232127/@comment-452-20160822000502

Dessamator wrote:

Otherwise, the message walls which are often used as "discussion pages" would not have this as a feature. Wikia Staff have said that the presence of the "remove" feature is the same as the ability to blank a page: just because you "technically can" does not imply it is necessarily okay to do so.

"The "remove" option is standard for all users and needs to remain. This is akin to the ability any user has to blank another user's talk page, so if it happens, the proper action is to revert and enforce/ban as per your wiki's policy."

- Wikia Support ticket #54764, 2012-10-09

Additionally, when the moderator right was introduced, what regular users could do changed to: "Regular users are not able to revert actions performed by moderators or admins (remove, restore, close, reopen), even on their own Message Walls.", which shows that although the "remove" option exists, it does not mean everyone is inherently "allowed" to remove their own messages, and that it is up to the moderators and admins whether to permit a removal.

Dessamator wrote:

It is funny that you link to a page entitled "community guidelines" and claim that these are rules. I have never claimed that the list on Help:Community guidelines are rules.

It is a guideline that communities are encouraged to make their own rules.

Dessamator wrote: SuperSajuuk wrote: user talkpages generally do not belong to the user but are community property. Nothing stored in wikia servers is "community property". I think the idea that "user talkpages do not belong to the user" is the more important aspect of this comment, as it is more relevant to the question at hand.

Dessamator wrote:


 * The Site is not and shall not function as an archive. [etc]

This paragraph does not restrict the ability for individual wikis to enforce a "Do not remove comments from your user talk page" rule.

I even double-checked with Wikia Staff: Wikia Staff wrote:

452 wrote:

"Does the section of the TOU stating "The Site is not and shall not function as an archive." mean that individual wikis are not allowed to enforce a "Do not remove comments from your user talk page" rule?" No. 452 wrote:

"Are users allowed to demand the right to remove comments by saying "I'm allowed to remove comments from my talk page, because the Site is not and shall not function as an archive."?" No.

Dessamator wrote:


 * You understand and agree that others may, but are not obligated to, edit, delete or remove (without notice) any content from the Service, for any reason or no reason.

This paragraph does not restrict the ability for individual wikis to enforce a "Do not remove comments from your user talk page" rule.

I even double-checked with Wikia Staff: Wikia Staff wrote:

452 wrote:

"Does the section of the TOU stating "You understand and agree that others may, but are not obligated to, edit, delete or remove (without notice) any content from the Service, for any reason or no reason." mean that individual wikis are not allowed to enforce a "Do not remove comments from your user talk page" rule?" No. 452 wrote:

"Are users allowed to demand the right to remove comments by saying "You agreed that others - such as myself - may remove content for any reason, therefore I'm allowed."?" No.

Dessamator wrote:

Also note that most staff aren't lawyers, so they may give their interpretation of the TOU, and Wikia Lawyers aren't obligated to give any legal advice to random users. I'm not really sure what this has to do with the topic at hand.

I've asked Wikia a lot of questions over the years regarding the TOU, and they've never refused to answer a question about the intent of the TOU with the excuse "we can't give you legal advice".

There are some questions which they've refused to answer hypothetical questions about, and the reason for that is that the TOU is deliberately broadly written so that they can apply it however they like.

But they have only ever played the "we can't give you legal advice" card in response to my questions regarding licensing/copyright, and rightfully so as those are legal issues which are out of their control. The TOU is written by Wikia, for Wikia to use to tell you what you can and can't do on Wikia.

Dessamator wrote:

While admins may ban or punish the user for doing so it doesn't change the fact that they can do it. You are absolutely correct. The fact that Wikia Staff allow admins to create rules, and block users in accordance with those rules does not change the fact that they can do it.

However, this does not address 75.128.47.18's question of whether they are allowed, which ultimately depends on the rules of each individual wiki.