Forum:Wiki3D Let's build a 3D internet together

Currently Massive Online RPGs are a hot topic. For example, Second Life(r) is a booming game where real-life corporations currently are building virtual headquarters. It's more than a game, it's a prototype of the Internet of tomorrow. The Internet is moving away from the document interface towards 3D virtual worlds. The Internet is no longer a pure information space, it is increasingly important as a space for social interactions. We are running into the limits of flat user interfaces and 3D virtual worlds open up new possibilities for communicating, cooperating, debating, learning, sharing and you name it.

I am sure huge changes are going to happen on the web in the years to come, but nobody can tell where we are going right now. It's the right time for the pioneers among us to explore the possibilities of 3D on the web. It's the right time now to start building a 3D web together!

Of course we can just subscribe to an existing 3D game/virtual world, and I think the developers of such systems are really doing a great and ground breaking job. This message is absolutely not meant in a negative or offensive way. However, I think it's time to move on to the next step. I do not believe that a few organizations will hold the future of the entire web. The web is a distributed system which can scale endlessly. No single person or organization owns the Internet of today. Similarly in the 3D Internet of tomorrow there will be many providers of 3D content, 3D browsers and 3D servers. New standards are required to take your avatar from one 3D site to the next, to hyperlink to 3D sites operated by different providers, to search for 3D virtual web spaces, etc.

Let's develop a Wiki3D: the ideas, concepts, design, technology, standards and etiquette of an open 3D Internet of tomorrow. Just like Wiki software can be created by the open-source community and freely be used by everybody, a Wiki3D will be an open 3D platform developed by the open-source community, and used by social groups from all over the world.

I assume the challenge is huge, both in terms of technology and organization and I cannot tell where to start. There will be many aspects which I cannot foresee, and maybe others already started working on this idea. For now I am just curious for your reactions, comments and suggestions. RC 22:28, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It sounds like you're talking more about building a Wiki in 3D than a wiki about 3D. In which case it would be better to talk to the MediaWiki developers than Wikia. Wiki are just hosted here. There is some backend work but completely different software isn't being built. Dantman (Talk) 05:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That's right, it's about building a Wiki in 3D, or a Wiki3D like I call it, but before the building starts we need a design of what to build. Therefore I think a wiki about Wiki3D could be helpful to discuss ideas, what people expect from it, what you can do with it, who can contribute code or other things, what's already available, etc.. I think the idea of Wiki3D should be challenged from many sides including technology, functional requirements, social implications, and all the aspects that could influence what Wiki3D will become. RC 11:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't it then be better to start a project somewhere else? Such as sourceforge where the focus is creating something instead of documenting already existing things. Dantman(CGANI)(talk 01:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * A wiki here would definitely be accompanied with a sourceforge site or alike for development. RC 08:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

GREAT! It is a great idea, of the best I've seen. Also:
 * 1) we can also upload our source code and techniques
 * 2) that can be used for other type of programs, like offline RPGs.--Nethac DIU 11:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks glad you like it. I think a Wiki3d - project should reuse as much as possible existing open-source code libraries, which are well maintained in the software development community. Only stuff that is really missing should be developed especially for Wiki3d. I'm sure that it can indeed be used for many other programs. RC 08:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. I see potential on a wiki as proposed for contribution on the social implications side of things (not just the techy side although I imagine that's what'd get the most attention at least at first) I foresee uses to communities who may also have an interest in Sustainable Community Action Philralph 17:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks glad you like it. I think it would be a good idea to discuss social implications and technology in parallel. The tech people can learn about user requirements, and the future users can learn about what's possible technology wise which may trigger new ideas. RC 08:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

It sounds very interesting. Having a 3-D website hosted by Wikia would be a very ground-breaking experiance, especially since we can be a part of it. Having one of the first 3-D websites on Wikia would also be very important because it would create a legacy of cooperation, understanding, and teamwork for 3-D websites, not just for the benefit of one single person.--Homeworld Fleet 21:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * And if Wikia gets famous through the 3D website, also will their wikis... including my Subtitle Wiki! (extra ads :)--Nethac DIU 22:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I already started something for supporting 3D content in MediaWiki, an extension called Wiki3D you might want to give it a try - but that's pretty crude for now. I've done a few samples like a solar system and so on. The whole code consists in a php extension and a Java applet, all open sourced under the BSD license. Feel free to check it out if you like. --Luc


 * Thanks Luc. I already found your project and I think it is a very nice initiative. The wiki3D project I had in mind should be on a slightly different abstraction level. It should focus more on using existing technologies and integrating these for a 3D wiki. But if it works out it would be really nice if we could integrate/merge/exchange some ideas. Hope you like that. Anyways if I request a wiki and setup this project I will choose a different name to prevent any confusion. RC 10:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually Wiki3D seems to be a pretty obvious name. I bumped into another project also called Wiki3d that describes a wiki structure as a 3D graph. Anyway, as far as online 3D content is concerned, I agree that leveraging existing technologies is necessary, to import existing models at the very least. I looked a bit at text formats like VRML and X3D. Then there are also some nice open source modelers like pov-ray, blender... Eventually I chose to do a Java applet because I didn't want to have to install a proprietary plugin, nor to have a renderer running on the server. But that still leaves more problems to address: no graphical modeler, just a text-based description. no ray-tracing, only facets and wireframe. I guess the correct thing to do would be to use a pivot text format (x3D ?) in the wiki, and a Java (or maybe Flash) renderer on the client that could edit the model online too. But then yes, that's a lot of work. The sourceforge repository makes a lot of sense here. --Luc