Forum:Fix vs Undo

Hello,

I'm an admin on the Rappelz Wiki. There is an upcoming big update for the game, and I think there's going to be a lot of updates done to the wiki after that.

However, irregular editors don't follow the rules, or don't really care about how they update the wiki.

That's why I've started a discussion on our forums about what should be done with badly done updates. If you're interested to see, here it is (we only have 3 'active' admins).

The main question is: do we revert/undo badly done edits, or do we fix them.

Here's what I mean by Fix and Revert (undo):


 * A Fix policy means that we let the users edit pages, add content, etc. If the content is not properly entered, an admin passes by after each edit and fixes it.


 * A Revert policy means that if an edit is not properly done (without respect to guidelines), an admin reverts it and adds a link to the proper guideline in the revert message.

I've come up with main pros/cons I see with both policies.

I'd like to have your inputs with that. I know on some wikis they just undo edits stating "see the guidelines". It's kinda 'Shark VS Carebear'.

Thanks a lot!

Hunter789 20:00, November 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * it is a tough call to make. I come from a wiki that has a very strict undo policy but it really only works on wikis in which there is a strong user base. Undoing will cause you to lose editors. If you think you have enough editors even if you undo edits, give the undo option a shot but I think it is preferable for most wikis to do a fix policy.--


 * If the fix work is small, why simply undo everything? You should go case by case. Anyway in both cases the users must be warned and if they don't follow the guidelines then take actions. Well on the wikis I edit, we don't have a strict policy like that, so maybe I can't be more of an help.

I personally prefer the fix idea. It allows for new information, even if it isn't the prettiest. Since a lot of people will be looking for the new info, and might ignore the bit of it not being the prettiest. 21:24, November 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * You need both fix and undo. The right amount of either action depends on the size of your wiki and the amount of editors. Choosing only one can really limit your options.


 * If there is some valuable and good faith information in the edit, it should be generally fixed. I usually let some (short) time pass before I intervene, so that people can see what they wrote and improve it themselves.


 * If an edit is blatantly useless, revert with no regrets. If someone creates a new page and puts a sentence of gibberish on it, delete without even bothering to enter a summary.


 * It all boils down to using your judgement. That's why you need admins, a strict policy can't do that. -- 21:30, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

(indent reset) Thanks all for your inputs. I'll try to have the wiki straighten up and all the information appropriately formatted, with formats documented before the update.

Our wiki as 15-20k daily visits but very few updates. So I think we'll go for a 'fix' policy, but warning the editors that their edits might be reverted.

We already revert without further notice when it's clear vandalism.

Again, thanks a lot for replying :)

Hunter789 18:59, November 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Erm, why don't you have a Fix and tell policy? Use the MediaWiki:Welcome-message-user and MediaWiki:Welcome-message-anon display what you want to tell your users (logged in and not logged in; example on how to do it welcoming and nicely; example on very strict option (not recommended, altough this is a quality page); example how i wouldn't recommend it either). It is also helpfull to show text above the newly edited/ added pages with MediaWiki:Newarticletext. Can be done like this.
 * Fix the problems and leave a short notice on the summery what you did and why. Active contributors will easily pick up on your comments and be glad you helped them.




 * Yes that's what I'll do, fix and tell. Thanks also for your links to nice examples! Hunter789 14:27, November 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Some good suggestions and reasoning there Godsime, Leviathone, IcreanKitten and WikiPim.
 * In general the Carrot & the stick method of encouraging message and showing them the right way with the use of warnings for repeat offenders should get better results as if nobody tels people were they are going wrong and how to fix it they wount learn.


 * I used to check IPs contributions using popups as i scan down recent changes & leave a warning for repeat offenders with problem edits as it was quick to do. But since Popups has been blocked (possibly?) its a more tedious to have to look at several pages to check the edit and the user out.


 * What i have found lately is IPs creating new pages that are A) Blank, B) Just the std new page text & image place holder with nothing added at all or C) Ditto but Screwed up by the RTE. Occasionally they leave a minute bit of info in the edit summary. With these usless new pages i usually delete after a few days if no addition - The welcome bot has already left them a welcome message. Occasionally 've left a custom message but wonder if a stard User warning would be usefull to leave for them ?
 * The other IP edit i'm getting a lot of (in relative terms) is IPs editing pages and not ading anything to the page or just leavinga abstract bit of information in th edit summary that 'Could be' a vehicle model or serial number but it not clear. I've thought of adding a Warning mesage for these 'summary only' edits but its how to phrase it that their contribution is meaningless or 'the system' dose not magically add edit summaries into the page !!
 * Any suggestions a suitable warning message for these probable test editors but potential contributors ??


 * BTW a useful tip is to edit the deletion reasons drop down list so several more detailed reasons are available with out having to type a custom one each time a page is deleted. - 00:52, November 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Given the fact that these are done by IP (and not registered) editors, I'd simply undo the edit if it's completely useless and integrate data into the page if it can be used (data from the edit log). IMO, giving warning to IP editors is completely useless. That's why I'd fix and tell. If the anon editor comes back to the page and checks the log, he/she can see what has been done after he/she did the edit. Hunter789 14:32, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bulldozer, might want to check out the MediaWiki:Newarticletext to include information you like to give to be helpfull for new users. It is likely people are willing to help out, but not being used to wiki editing are confused and give up. Swords and Potions has a nice example (imho) of a good way to do so. We don't have ANY problems with vandals, error edits and/ or content not being correctly added for the last month or so.
 * BTW hunter, i left a reply to your comment at my talk page.


 * Thanks for that suggestion WikiPim I'd recently added a New articletext msg from your post higher up - i'll perhaps try updating to the more detailed version to mention edit summaries in there. I only get a few aday usually but would like to get more to actually contribute regularly.
 * Thanks also Hunter - Yes If its meaning full data I do use incorporate it but 9/10 times its without any context. but Anons are unlikely to see logs and similar stuff unless they are experienced wiki users IMO (in which case they are too lazy or are just messing, creating test pages, hence me checking if that address has multiple similar edits.


 * As i have a lot of long lists with lots of links (as placeholders) to point to future articles, the link being designed to be replaced by a meaning full one based on a serial number or registration number etc. which are were a number of these new pages originate from. I have now locked the links target page (as it is linked from 1000's of pages and multiple places in the lists) and added a std template msg within them to tell them they are in the wrong place & go back and change the link to a unique name then create the new page for the vehicle or machine. I try to adere to the wikia practice of 'assume good faith' unless circumstance indicate other wise. Some usefull tips and reminders of features are appearing here on centrals forums and blogs since the wikia has been restructured and the new menu added. Thanks for the suggestions - 00:01, November 11, 2011 (UTC)