Board Thread:New Features/@comment-20644-20170522203248/@comment-1370845-20170601213625

SuperRobot9338 wrote: @Technobliterator Also, addressing your earlier point where you called me a conspiracy theorist for just speculating, remember that was mere speculation and wasn't intended to be an insult to Fandom or a rage post, just an off-hand reflection of my fears in general. There's offhand reflection of fears about trends you're noticing in recent updates, such as: As Fandom moves towards becoming a centralised, corporate, and bland site more like Facebook, and less a mosaic of vibrant and dedicated communities passionate about their content, I fear the worst for Wikias. No longer is this website hosting myriad sites, each a self-dependent community about their topic, but rather simply a giant megacorporation that believes a wiki about Sushi should always look and feel just like a wiki about Runescape, and that it should be indistinct from anything else. and outright conspiracy theories, like: It looks like the ultimate goal is for all wikis to look exactly the same, except for different colours. Note the key difference. In your first post, you express a concern - one I would argue is completely unfounded and still a silly concern to bring up in response to "hey look, here's a new header, you can add your image in it now, you just can't break it with JS or CSS", but you highlighted a trend and why you feared it. In your second, you made baseless predictions about the future.
 * 1) I am completely in support of the other aspects of Wiki Moderisation, and I believe many of the other "conspiracy theorists" here also support them. I just don't see why removing CSS would deter advertisers.
 * 2) Rage posts? Where? Either way, look around you. Users are doing exactly what you say they aren't — questioning why advertisers would need this and having civil conversations about why keeping the header consistent is all that necessary. Wake up.
 * 3) If you really hate disagreements with Fandom, you can go live under a rock. Nothing will change either way, so why should we stop? In addition, the only thing they've addressed is ExtendedNavigation, and that argument has been well questioned by Browseitall and Fandyllic if you'd care to look.
 * 4) That is a good point, but you haven't addressed the rest of the examples I gave.
 * 1) It's explained right here. "We need to provide value to advertisers so we can keep our wikis going strongly and continue to make improvements on features and general site performance. Wiki pages have been a challenge because the design hasn’t changed much since 2010 (and in parallel, many low quality ad products have been added), but advertisers’ expectations definitely have changed. Advertisers are now demanding to have their ads associated with a much cleaner, modern look." This is following a three-blog series on how they intend to improve the ad experience. You can question why CSS shouldn't be restricted to prevent users from breaking the "cleaner, modern look" that advertisers demand from sites in the page header, but I have a good idea what answer you'll get.
 * 2) The vast majority of posts on this thread are rage posts and are absolutely not "civil conversations". It's just, "you're banning customization, what next in this slippery slope, this is a disaster..." My posts may not have been much better, but I deemed the tone of them appropriate given what they were in response to.
 * 3) I really don't hate disagreements with Fandom, that's the thing. I disagree with Fandom all the time, and have been very vocal when I did. I hate the Central attitude of "dogpile on every thread with cynical rage, insert conspiracy theories about how we're losing customization forever, upvote every comment, then turn around and claim we have 'community support' and demand whatever decision made for the good of the wiki be reversed". It's a petulant attitude. FYI, no, frankly, the counterarguments to that weren't great, "it's more helpful to randoms to limit navigation but less helpful to core users who find the links useful" is meaningless because said "core users" probably amount to about a percentage of users or less, and it has been explained several times that Modernization is about making the wiki more appealing to the broader public.
 * 4) Assuming you're referring to the other wikis when you say "examples", try the same exercise with them and you will find the same results - except for wikis that were never part of Wikia to begin with (Dota 2 wiki).

Also, even if you hadn't made said concerns. Why do you think posting "all wikis are becoming the same corporate trash, they will soon look identical, Staff doesn't care about us" is likely to convince anyone at Fandom? Do you expect them to read your posts and go "welp, he got us! He caught our evil plot! Guess we better reverse everything now and give them more CSS tools..." Have you ever been sympathetic when a user, or a group of users, on your wiki argue that the admins "don't care about the users" and then try and tell other users to not listen to the admins, perhaps telling them to vandalise pages?