Thread:Imamadmad/@comment-188432-20130308004908/@comment-4189499-20130308054719

CzechOut, I am not trying to say you're anti-community. I have always based my argument about this about one event, which I admit has since spiralled completely out of control, but have never tried to attack all your edits ever! In no way has that ever been my intent! Now, whenever I have been talking on this subject I have made an effort to stay as calm and polite as possible. I am really not trying to insult you as an individual. I am commenting on the edits you have made in this situation, and how they have come across, not you personally as a whole. However, if that is how you interpret my response, I apologise and will try my best in the future to avoid speaking in a way which would imply that. I would also like to point out that despite what you seem to believe, I am not the only one who has ever felt this way about the actions in question. An IP user who usually goes by the IP of 89, although also occasionally has the IP of 2, 78 and 92, who has been editing at the site continuously (speaking of continuously, according to you yourself, before Spiders blocked you you said you were "someone who hasn't even contributed to your wiki at all since 2011". May I mention the various changes in users and admins between that time, and the fact that things evolve as the user base does, and if somebody goes away for a while they are likely to miss the evolution of ideas) since before the old admin abandoned and was part of the only few people trying to keep order on the site before Icecreamdif stepped up to the role of admin, something that can be proven by looking through old talk pages, he also agrees with me here and has made these points clear. So this isn't just something between you and me, despite what you always seem to think.

Anyway, the problem with this situation only is the lack of community involvement. As a whole you are very active in the community, I never denied that fact. However it is this situation only which we are discussing. Despite what you say, there was nothing said "several months before I touched anything — that my intent was to use the bot to bring order to the categories". What you said was that it was possible to make the categories useful if DPL was turned on. You never said you were going to go and fill all the categories, or at least not until after you started, hence the "I'm just going to assume you know what you're doing by going and adding all those categories, however I would have though that you at least would know that it's kinda bad form to go add a whole bunch of something when we are still discussing whether we want it at all or not". This whole argument would have been completely avoided if you did actually say that you were going to use the bot to organise the categories. Maybe you meant to but then forgot or something. It happens. I've done it before. Also note that in my initial reaction comment the part where I said "it seems that the majority of pages has not been added to them" (the "them" referring to the categories). It was partly the fact that the categories were being structured before conclusion yet pages were not being added which brought about the whole 'woah, wait, what are you doing? Nothing's been decided yet' response. Look. I'm going to be frank here. None of these arguments against you could have possibly have popped up if there was some sort of announcement before starting. It is not the fact that you did it which is getting me, and 89 agrees with me on this point, annoyed. It is the fact that nothing was actually said beforehand. Now, I really don't in any way expect you to take me "by the hand and shown her everything". I never have. All that was needed was a simple "now I have the needed bot rights, I am going to go organise the categories and put all the pages into them" or something similar, as the main problem as outlined earlier on that page and in the previous discussions was the fact that nobody was offering to categorise the pages, and at the time you hadn't actually started categorising anything but the categories themselves. You have since stated that that was your intention, and it would be fine now to go continue, although again a lot of this argument could of then have been avoided if your reply wasn't quite so 'I'm doing this and I don't care what anybody else says' sounding. OK, I'm getting worked up again. Sorry. But really the problem is that before starting something big, at least the way that DrWho.Answers has done it for the last few months since there have been admin (not counting the ones who had done nothing for months on end), just about all big decisions have started with a conversation in the forums written out clearly with the intentions of what is to be done, along with pros and cons for the community to discuss.

Sorry, just to break things up for a second, 89 has left me yet another complaint about your behaviour on my talk page back at the relevant site. I would like to mention again here that I am not the only one complaining about the situation. Please stop implying that I am!

OK, where was I? Well, the admin thing was based on a complete misunderstanding on both sides of the argument, and we are both at fault for that, so I'm gonna let that point be forgotten. But what I have been trying to say all along is not that you are a terrible person or that you hate communities or anything like that. That is obviously not true. All I have to say is that decisions need to be discussed before being implemented as well as while they're being implemented so that everyone is on the same page and that anyone can make suggestions, alter things, and even help out. Well that is after the pros and cons have been discussed and the conclusion is that we want the change to happen at all. When it comes to the issue on categories, your intentions have been made clear since you actually started doing and talking about the change, meaning that there would be no opposition to you now continuing to organise the categories, now you have said that you will do all the categorising and that the categories are needed for the bot. It really never needed to escalate this far. All anyone ever wanted was some discussion of the basics before hand, or at least a sentence announcing what's actually going to happen, even in only basic detail. Is this too much to ask for?

PS, this is a reply to all your comments today. I will not be replying individually as I believe I have covered everything here.