Forum:Lost of Monobook support

Fr.guildwars (over here) has lost support for the monobook skin been the defaut skin. Is this intentionnal ?

I can select the "defaut" parameter in admin options but that switch it to Sapphire... — TulipVorlax 01:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Further thinking and testing has showed that it's not quite it. Annon will see Monobook when i set it to "Defaut". But, login don't see monobook unless they have set all wikia to be in monobook. I dont like this at all as i want to see the custom skin of every wikia wether it's one of the quartz or monobook. — TulipVorlax 02:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I got the same problem on fr.design.wikia.com. My first wish was that the wiki had a Wikipedia apparence because in people mind it means that the wiki is a real encyclopedia and not a random site. I understand that the quartz skin have been designed to be wikia's mark. However the moonbook skin is a mark too that says users they are on a wiki. In one hand it help thoose who are used to wikis, in the other hand having a different skin may draw some people who are usually frightened by wikis (this need a good WYSIWYG editor too). This is very different within the context. For example For the GuildWars wiki people are used with Mediawiki skin because the main sites (GuildWiki you currently host and PvXWiki you will certainly host soon ;) ) are arlready wikis. On the french  gamebook wiki people are not necessarily used with wikipedia and, since it is a game-wiki, they do not want to play on an encyclopedia; so that using a different skin is perfect. I'm not against innovation (Yet i'm an engineer specialised in product innovation) but I've noticed that wikis are already innovating and pretty amazing for some people who only know wikipedia. To solve this problem I really sugest a wikia enchanced moonbook (I know the advertizing banner is a problem because it is large and should not be placed on the up left where traditionally stand the wiki logo. However you may consider put it on the down left and put toolbox under the banner so that adds will not be hidden) or at least to let admins choose between the original moonbook or the new colored quartz apparence. --Ttibot 12:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've read somewhere that monobook support as a defaut skin is (or will be) now unawaillable on every Wikia wikis. Users can still set in theirs preferences to use monobook. But, what i dont like about the way it's currently working is that if i (or anyone) prefer to view one wikia in monobook, all others wikia will be in monobook and the same things goes for Quartz except that wikis can set one quartz theme to be the defaut. So, now, i dont really have the choice. I've set my prefs on Quartz. I wont use monobook because it's not the skin that people see when they first arrive. I must use the skin that newcommers see so i know what they are talking about if they have trouble with it or so i can tweak the skin to look better.


 * But, as i said somewhere, wikia wikis are becomming a new and wonderfull wiki experience. When compagnies like Microsoft are making a new and improved version of a software or compagnies like Nintendo a new and improved gaming system, do you get the new thing as soon as you can or do you prefer staying with your old stuff ? For exemple, did you get a Wii or did you prefered your old GameCube ? Me, i have a Wii for less than a year now and i like it very much. It really is a new and wonderfull experience.
 * But still, i dont get all new things just because they are new nor because they are supposed to be better. I will surely never buy Vista and stay with XP.


 * But (yes again), we dont pay anything to use Wikia services. And it's a pretty damn good service. They do the dull part of managing wiki for us. The software is always up to date and bugs are sorted out on a decent schedule.
 * Yes, new people that come to Wikia will be startled by it's skin at first but in time, they will understand that Wikia is not Wikipedia and that they can contribute here as freely as on any other wiki despice it looking different.


 * This message is too long. I'll stop now. ;-) — TulipVorlax 09:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It's great that wikia is developing new features, but there's no harm to wikia to let us decide which skin is better for "our" wiki. The wiki is hosted by wikia, which all of us are pleased about this, but we are creating the content that makes the community grow, and it's also important, so we know better than wikia which skin is the best for our wiki. We want to choose it. --Ciencia Al Poder (talk) -WikiDex 17:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think there's just a tiny problem here. From what i know, it seems that around 75% of Wikia users prefer the monobook skin. And if most wikis would return to monobook, then, it's no use developing new skins. I'm not sure but i think i've read somewhere a staff who was saying "it would be counterproductive to develop new stuff and then permitting people to get back to the old stuff" (but maybe in others words). You think i liked the new skin right from the start ? Not at all. In fact, for the first few weeks, i did not even know there was news skins. I discovered it when i sended a link of a newly created project to a friend... She wasn't seen my pretties modifications of the monobook skin. In place, she reply "me, i would had put thoses yellow bars..." Yes, the Smoke skin.
 * Now tell me. What is the best way of removing a Band-Aid ? Pulling it little by little or pulling it completly in one fast move ?
 * Wikia wanted to remove the possibility to put monobook as defaut and they have done it the right way : fast.
 * But this doesn't stop users forum setting Wikia skin to monobook in theirs prefs. And i'm sure many of them already have it on monobook.
 * In time, probably sooner than we think, the new skin will be some kind of « trade mark » of Wikia, something so people will know in an instant that the wiki they are visiting is from Wikia. (Until one day the skin get to be awailable to other wikis)
 * I dont say i'm really happy about the fr.guildwars.wikia now been seen by every new visitor in the Quartz skin. I would have prefered that this project stayed in monobook. And i'm pretty sure every sysops there think the same. But, they wont really know the defaut skin is now Quartz because they all have theirs prefs on monobook. One of them is currently on vacancy (or trip) and when he will return and get my email about the change, i think he'll be pretty shocked.
 * This could be the kind of thing that could make some people leave for an equivalent projet that has more content and really more users (gwiki.fr) but the content on wikia will still be there and stay freely editable by the community. No matter how many quit because of the new skin, many others will comes not even knowing wikia wikis were previously on another skin. For some people tired of seen every wikis with the same old look, this could be their sole reason of choosing to contribute to a wikia wiki over an independant project.
 * Now, take note that english is not my native language. What i have written here was at times a pretty difficult exercice for me. I often had to use Google to translate one or two words for me. So, i'm not sure this was exactly the reflection of my thinking. And if anybody feel they might not get it right, please ask for any clarification that might be needed.
 * I dont "agree" with all Wikia's doing, but it's free and it let me do wikis about topic that matter the most to me. (That is, guild wars, 3d modelling, computer science, etc.) And all of this in my native language (french).
 * See ya all. — TulipVorlax 08:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm a sysop in the spanish Pokémon wikia and there are very few contributors. I spend most of my time creating or or cleaning-up articles, and make the wiki look good for a new skin is tedious and a lost of my valuable time. People comes to our wiki because the content, not the look, and I want a functional skin, like Monobook. For people that knows that in Wikipedia anyone can edit an article, the Monobook skin is the best way of make it more familiar. And if people can set Monobook as default in their preferences, also can set Quartz, so people that really want Quartz just has to set it in Preferences. The choice of the skin must be on the community. --Ciencia Al Poder (talk) -WikiDex 09:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I understand well the reason that maid that wikia stopped monobook (sorry, I'm pretty sur this sentence is incorrect english but like tulip I'm french and I have more difficulties to express myself in english). However I think this is a reasonement from people used to wikis. Imo there is two ways :
 * Making a 100% intuitive and simplified wiki like PBWiki => the interace can be very specific to the site.
 * Making a technical MediaWiki Wiki => Most of the users only know wikipedia. A too specific interface make users loose them (feeble) marks and don't even try to modify pages.
 * The current position of wikia does not satisfy me at all. It is between thoose two cases. I seems that it is very unfriendly for inexperienced users. I hope the WYSIWYG editor will be updated soon (I saw the new beta it seems to be really nice) and that and effort will be maid on lisibility and ergonomics of default skins (less overloaded with widgets and hight contrast colors).
 * --Ttibot 23:56, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE !
Some of things i've said previously are not true.

Today i've tryed using Autowikibrowser (that wont work on Wikia anymore but this is another subjet) and i've logout my IE of my normal account then login with the bot account (for IE to have the proper cookie), and the bot was still on Monobook. That made me investigate more.

So, i've found out that if an admin of a wikia select « Defaut » as the wiki skin, the wiki will show up in the skin the user has selected. And, if that user has checked « See wikis custom skin », when he'll go to others wikia, if the admin there has selected any other skin than Defaut, that is the skin in wich the wiki will show up.

So, now i see many wikia wikis in Monobook. Central is one of them. And i see wikis custom skin when they have one. I should have made more tests before making all this fuss (up in this page). But i understand that this wont satisfy people that want Monobook to really be defaut skin of the wikia they administrate. But, gess what folks, nobody is perfect so Wikia isn't.

See ya all. — TulipVorlax 06:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)