Thread:DarkDragonMedeus/@comment-38729545-20190612172933/@comment-38729545-20190615135214

The arguments in regards for Azura not getting the 2A I will quote from Azzy:

“ Can you please show me where she builds these infinite worlds, though? Because all the dialogue about the dream adult Azura stops seems to be talking about a single dream world, and the area Loki said had infinite worlds is fine when this mission ends at the end of the video.”

Really, further context around this would be appreciated, as I can't assume all of this from the video you provided without further knowledge of the game.”

That's fine, but like I said, where is the further context that explains the world that Loki is in at the start is the same world Azura created? Because that's not stated in the video.

If JSW also has that info, that would definitely be appreciated.

I'd again like to ask simply where the area that has infinite worlds is stated to be Azura's dream. "If the worlds are infinite, as I was told... Any world that I could wish for exists here" implies the worlds are already there, and we only see Azura get rid of one of these worlds in the mission linked in the OP. At least, I assume that's what happens.

Also, in the same page this quote is from, the very next lines are:

"Did things become this way because of me? Is it because I hoped for things to be different?"

"Oh, Azura, no. You don't have that kind of power."

The best this conversation seems to imply is that the remnants of the forebears' power within Azura was used by Loki to cause a Tempest that made worlds mix and scatter. I genuinely don't see where "Azura created the infinite multiverse" is coming from when provided with only this information.

Is there not just some really direct statement someone could link about all these worlds being created by Azura? Dishing out 2-A this easily seems dubious without something concrete.“

“ Okay, but again, where is Azura shown to create/destroy this whole thing? She is flat out stated to be incapable of causing a Tempest messing with a bunch of worlds by her future self. Is there something that hasn't been posted that says this whole area is strictly Azura's dream world? Does she create it in a scene that hasn't been linked, yet?

Too much is missing right now for me to confidently say anyone looks 2-A, here.”

“ That's fine and all, but Azura is directly stated by herself to not have the kind of power to cause such a thing. Being 2-A, she would objectively have "that kind of power".

Loki simply says that the place she and Azura are in has infinite worlds. The world young Azura dreamed up was a single one of these worlds. When it vanishes at the end of the mission, the area that Loki said had infinite worlds still remains. Young Azura herself also suspects that any world she can dream up could be there because there are infinite worlds, not because she created infinite worlds. She does not even know if there are, as she says "as I was told".

I am sorry, but there is a severe lack of context and evidence for just handing out 2-A to this character. If there is a scene where this entire dream realm is destroyed by someone, or Azura is explicitly stated to have created the whole thing (direct evidence of which would override the statement of her older self of her not having the kind of power to mess with multiple worlds), then it would be really helpful to see it. What has been provided just does not seem like enough, with both the video and the dialogue posted suggesting that Azura did not create these infinite worlds.”

“This comes from the video you yourself linked in the OP.

Note the exact line "It is as I expected. It is as I suspected. This world is the world of my dreams. I must put an end to it." This happens around 8:04 if you really need a timestamp.

Notice how the mission ends with Azura confronting her younger self to "put an end" to the world she dreamed up, which is the world they were fighting in. Notice how the place where Loki conversed with young Azura is still completely fine and intact, and how a conversation even happens there, afterwards.

Again, notice how Loki reiterates statements such as "There is an infinite number of worlds here, my dear... Any world you can conceive of must exist.", which implies these versions all exist because there is an infinite amount of them, not because Azura created infinite dreams.

Notice how she also says "You can summon any version of yourself you desire", which, because this statement comes immediately after the previous one, suggests that there are endless Azuras because there are endless worlds, not because the single dream world Azura made when she was a child contains all these infinite Azuras.”

Basically what Azy is saying that without further context, Azura and the others can not considered be 2A without any further context.

The same argument is being used against the 2A upgrade.

“ With all due respect, I don't need you to explain yourself better.

I just need proof of any of the following:

Unless there's something I've missed in what's been linked so far, there is no proof of any of these. Just the assumption that they are true. If you have links that can clearly reflect any of these, getting a 2-A should be rather easy.”
 * Azura creating the place that contains infinite worlds.
 * Azura destroying the place that contains infinite worlds.
 * Azura's dream world being the same as the one that contains infinite worlds.