Hub talk:Big wikis/Archive 1

Proteins Wiki
I don't think we should include Proteins Wiki on this page. The statistics say that Proteins has 47,000 pages, but that's not actually accurate. The pages are made in an unusual way -- each page is transcluded from a template, which is made up of a transcluded page for each section.For example, the page on At3g53460.2 transcludes At3g53460.2/Header as a separate page. It's all templates within templates within templates; I actually can't figure out how it works. It was clearly pulled from a technical database in a very complicated way.

So each article on a protein is made up of 13 separate sections. Each section is a transcluded page, which pulls from a template, which may pull from another transcluded page as far as I know. I can't tell how many of the 47,000 pages are actual pages, and how many are sections that are transcluded into a larger page. So it's not possible to compare Proteins to any of the other wikis. -- Danny  ( talk ) 17:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * check w:c:proteins:At2g12940.1/PDB, did their bot submit an error log...? is this stuff taken from a copyrighted source? 47k pages, all from oct 8 - oct 18 '07, it looks kind of suspicious to me. -- Sixorish 18:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Stars, but no stars
"Wikis with stars have 5000+ pages." - but my Cologne Blue shows no stars in the list. Robin Patterson 00:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * the stars are a modified image for the list item bullets, cologneblue seems to nullify list bullets completely. --Uberfuzzy 12:14, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Number of pages or articles?
Are we going by number of pages or articles? - AMK152 (Talk • Contributions 23:57, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair question, deserving an answer in respect of the list at the bottom; but the top 12 are clearly going by article numbers. Robin Patterson 00:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Same question... Is there an answer? 19:26, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Updating
How often are the Top 12 updated?--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 00:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Whenever you can be bothered. Robin Patterson 00:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Wookieepedia
if a wiki is in the top section (top10?), does it get listed in the bottom list section too? some are, like eq2 and uncyc, but wookie isnt. --UberFuzzy 07:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes they do, but Wookiepedia is actually listed down there. It's just listed as Star Wars. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) (tricks) (current topic) Sep 15, 2007 @ 07:54 (UTC)


 * Yeah -- on the hubs, wikis are usually listed under the topic, to make it easier for new readers to find the topics they're interested in. There's more about this on the Hubs FAQ, if you want to check it out. -- Danny  ( talk ) 11:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Marvel and DC Databases
Hey folks,

I just wanted to leave a note indicating why I modified the article counts in the way I did for my two main wikis.

We have been reorganizing our article structure over the last few months whereby we are moving all our comics to the Comics: namespace. This is why you actually see our article count sinking, even though we are still adding lots of new content.

While we actually have a significant more 'good pages' than our statistics reflect on the surface, I have only added a modest amount to the totals, to roughly where they would be if we hadn't moved our comics pages. I have done this in good faith. I am sure if I actually bothered to count, the numbers would be larger still.

Please contact me if you have any concerns about what I have done, or if you would like a more accurate count.

Kind regards,

--Jamie 05:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You can have the different-namespaced items included in Special:Statistics count, fyi. --Sky 07:23, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * yes, contact staff and have them add the custom namespaces to the "wgContentNamespaces", they will know what it means. --Uberfuzzy 06:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Update
I think this page need an update, some wikis should to be in the list but they aren't, e.g. TibiaWiki has 6,500+ articles.

&lt;·&gt; Hunter of Dragoes &lt;·&gt; My Talk &lt;·&gt; My Contributions &lt;·&gt; 17:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Recipes
The Recipes Wikia seams to have a lot of content. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) (tricks) (current topic) Sep 8, 2008 @ 21:16 (UTC)

Darthipedia
Issue: Darthipedia is included on the "Biggest Wikis", when it has less than 1,500 articles. The Wiki is included as a Joke amongst Star Wars fans, but the Wiki itself has given itself no merit for inclusion. It does not even meet the criteria for inclusion at the bottom, because it has less than 2,500 articles.

Personal Argument: Communities have worked hard for inclusion, and this sets a dangerous precedent; If Wikis should be included for Joke reasons, why not a fledgling Dragonball Z wiki with 56,000 articles, because of it's "over 9000", as the meme goes. I am not debating the inclusion of the Wiki itself - I am debating the lack of community heads-up, and lack of a reason, even embedded in the page, why it is included. A user editing the page will not see why it was included when it is in clear violation of the traditional terms of a Wiki's inclusion. I do nt see why a Wiki should added for Joke purposes, much less without community feedback or opportunity for debate.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 17:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Motion to Approve Darthipedia for Inclusion


 * 1 VOTE Jax Pavan is legion. Supergeeky1 (The Cantina) (My Edits) 18:42, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 VOTE I like the joke, it's original as well. Also legion. Hunterj | My talk 18:46, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 VOTE Now that the name has been corrected... and the edit conflicts have finally stopped... I can say I fully support this joke. --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 18:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 2 VOTES 1 VOTE Let go of your attachments. If you are threatened by the notion of a quite obvious joke somehow spoiling the recognition this page represents for your wiki, then you will never attain spiritual enlightenment. All things in this life are transitory. (Also: "Size matters not." That's a humorous Star Wars reference.)  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 20:20, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Motion to Disapprove Darthipedia for Inclusion


 * 1 VOTE TwoTailedFox - See above for reason
 * 1 VOTE I don't even see how this is an issue. Rodtheanimegod4ever 17:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 VOTE Trygon - I have to agree with Fox on this. I mean its a joke Wiki and it shouldn't even be apart of the real wikis that are taken seriously as far as listings/rankings go.
 * 1 VOTE Opinions lined out here. -- Deltaneos (talk) 17:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 VOTE Darthpedia is a non-existent wiki and thus does not belong on this page. Supergeeky1 (The Cantina) (My Edits) 18:29, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Corrected, my mistake.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 18:40, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 Vote It povides no use to anyone, so their no reason to keep it if it solely for "humor". Dmaster (Contribs • Count) 21:03, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As Danny said, there's no point in voting. Especially not the way it's going right now, where it's How Many Of My Friends Can I Get To Vote. Pinky Talk 21:24, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Comments
If Darthipedia isn't included on this list, we're gonna take our 582,799,140 articles and switch servers. That's 582,799,140 articles Wikia won't have. Supergeeky1 (The Cantina) (My Edits) 18:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean ~1,500. Joke or not, manipulation of figures in unfair to every other Wikia on Wikia servers.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 18:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * **ahem** Supergeeky1 (The Cantina) (My Edits) 18:54, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see how one wiki would be too bad, and they would have that many if it wasn't for the technical downside, if anything it's fair this way as Darthipedia should really have 582,799,140 articles, they only don't for technical reasons. Hunterj | My talk 18:58, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I had the good fortune to see that page before the database corrected itself. See WikiStats. 1.4k pages under the article section, last updated on Oct 19th. Don't make me take a screenshot--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 19:02, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I won't. In fact I've done it for you. I guarantee this is unmodified, click on your own link if you want proof. (Browser is google chrome by the way). Image is uploaded here by me: Hunterj | My talk 19:16, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This is unmodified, too.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 19:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * So you've corrected the link now. Thank you for correcting your "evidence" and providing a screenshot. On a side note indented bullets are created with :*, add another : for each indent. Hunterj | My talk 19:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. And Thanks.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 19:28, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. I am glad to see we can be civilised and I hope we find a solution that will please us all. Hunterj | My talk 19:31, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I am not going to vote or take sides so that I can stay as neutral as possible regarding this. However, I should not have needed to lock the page to prevent the ongoing edit war. This should have been discussed here before being implemented on the Big wikis page. Please note that the reason I reverted Supergeeky's last edit before locking the page was not because of Wikipedia policy or me taking sides. At the time I locked the page, the vote here was 3 support and 4 oppose, so since the oppose had the majority at the time, I removed that entry. I will revisit this page in a few days to see the progress, and will probably make the decision on its inclusion and unlock the page then. -- Skiz zerz  19:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Skizzerz -- I think the best arrangement is for the people who are interested in this to continue talking about it. I don't think that a vote is the best way to do that -- it's easy for people to recruit their friends to come add "points" to one side or the other.


 * I think questions about what's happening on Darthipedia itself are irrelevant to this discussion. The Darthipedia community, like every community on Wikia, gets to make decisions about what happens on their wiki. Some of those decisions may seem silly or eccentric, but it's their wiki. You can point to similar eccentricities on any active wiki. That's how wiki communities work -- a culture evolves to fit the needs and attitudes of that community. Every successful wiki is eccentric in its own way.


 * So the relevant question here is: Should Darthipedia's joke about their own wiki be allowed to extend to this page?


 * I think TwoTailedFox's post at the top of this thread is very well-said. People are bothered by Darthipedia's inclusion because they feel that it cheapens the hard work that their community has made. Every wiki listed at the top of the page has been working for years to build tens of thousands of pages of content, and I can totally understand if people feel cheated by Darthipedia putting themselves on the list.


 * So I think it's up to the Darthipedia community at this point to come up with a response to that argument. This is their opportunity to make the case that the joke is worth keeping. If they can't convince the others, then I think it'll have to be taken off. So... Darth folks, can you use this opportunity to make a convincing case? -- Danny  ( talk ) 20:29, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying a vote is the best method, it is just the method that I saw in use when I noticed a massive amount of reverts in Recent Changes. I was not preventing people from continuing to comment on this debate, I merely protected the page itself so that this issue can be resolved on the talk page instead of a war going on with the page itself. -- Skiz zerz  20:39, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * When I started the vote, I did not realise how easy it would be to derail. One user above posted "quite obvious joke". Might be obvious to him, but it holds 0% significance for many others. The only argument I have seen been made is "It's a joke, get over it", which is not really a compelling argument for its inclusion. As Skizzerz pointed out, this would have been better addressed on the talk page prior to the inclusion in the main article, purely to avoid a situation like now. As Dan has said, bring on the compelling arguments.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 20:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Compelling arguments ahead. All kidding aside.
 * 1) It had been my understanding that Darthipedia would not be listed among the other wikis that actually are "big." Instead, it was to be set off somewhere (perhaps among the ads on the side banner, or at the bottom, or as an embedded image thumb, or something). Thus, no one would mistake our wiki as being a legitimate member of the page.
 * 2) It had also been my understanding that, however Darthipedia was to be represented here, it would include the "fact" that we are a humor wiki and that we have over 582 million articles. Anyone with the slightest reasoning capacity would quickly conclude that no wiki could possibly have 582 million actual articles. Ergo, a joke.
 * 3) If the purpose of Central Wikia is to attract new users to wikis, then that purpose can only be aided by illustrating that Wikia has a sense of humor.
 * 4) Our "Jax Pavan" article creation fad is not going to end anytime soon. Multiple users have stated their intent to create hundreds more. Therefore, it's very likely, whatever the outcome of this dispute, that Darthipedia will have enough articles to qualify for legitimate placement on this page before too long. Most of those articles, however, will be fairly short. Wouldn't you rather see Darthipedia relegated off to the side with its fake number of articles? We have no problem staying there.

It's certainly not our intent to confuse users or cheapen the work of other wikis.  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 21:45, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I have a solution. Create as many pages as you want, but have them in a separate, non-content namespace. All of the joke, none of the inaccurate and misleading article figures.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 21:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * But, wasn't the idea of having 500 million + articles about the same thing, that it was a waste of web space, which is why they manually inflated the figures?-- Deltaneos (talk)
 * Precisely. Not only that, but what you propose would require us to distinguish content articles from non-content articles, which any Uncyclopedian could tell you is as impossible as dividing by zero. And speaking of numbers, how could a figure be considered misleading when it's so extreme as to be ludicrous? Would it be misleading to say the population of Earth is 327?  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 21:58, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's misleading, because of it actually being on the page. It grants the illusion that your wiki has done as much work, and has as much content to offer, as the others already present. Also, separating Content from Non-Content is incredibly easy.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 22:09, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay so, essentially, you want your article count figure to read 582,797,755+ because it bears some significance in the Star Wars fandom? This is a joke existing within darthipedia. You want the joke to extend to the big wikis page. This debate is really "will wikia accept having the joke here?" I can't see some one outside the Star Wars fandom, opening this page and saying "Oh look, it says Darthipedia has millions of articles, but it doesn't. Ha ha, that's funny". Some people seem to be offened by having Darthpedia listed here, when it hasn't met a sufficient article count. You say it proves wikia has a sense of humour. Personally that's not the reaction I'm getting, moreso it comes across as wikia is letting something silly pass. However I wouldn't mind the joke been mentioned if Darthipedia actually had enough articles to be listed here otherwise, then they could be put in their correct position, but still read the joke figure. -- Deltaneos (talk) 22:18, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A Wiki with tens of thousands of multiple pages saying the same thing isn't what a Wiki should be about. You need content, not distractions. With the time this project is taking, you could be doing something worthwhile to gain content. Unless this is the only content that there is to offer.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 22:24, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd like to remind you guys that what the Darthipedia community chooses to do on their wiki is not the issue. Their "Jax Pavan" project is silly, but Darth is a humor wiki, where "silly" is part of the job description. What they're doing on their wiki is entirely in keeping with their particular wiki project.


 * Gonk's post is well-spoken and shows a good spirit, but it does seem like it's not a compelling argument. I think TwoTailedFox's point is well-taken. The original idea of bot-creating 582 million Jax Pavan pages is a clever trick, but it's still a trick -- and it's not the same thing as writing thousands of actual content pages, which the other wikis on this list have done.


 * If everybody at Wikia felt that they were in on the joke, then having it on this page would be fun, like a little April Fool's surprise. However, it looks like people don't feel like they're in on the joke, so they feel tricked. People have a very strong attachment to their wiki's achievements, and it's important not to mess with that -- it's like trying to poke at a mother bear's cub. :) You can do it, but you might want to count all your fingers afterwards.


 * So I would propose that we shake hands on this, appreciate the good intentions of the joke, and then let it go. We'll take Darth off the Big wikis page until the community writes enough content pages to be here legitimately. I agree with Gonk, the Jax Pavan project seems to be productive and energizing, and now the Darthipedia folks have a goal. We'll meet back here when you've got 17,000 content pages. May the Force be with you. -- Danny  ( talk ) 00:44, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A Wiki with tens of thousands of multiple pages saying the same thing isn't what a Wiki should be about. You need content, not distractions. With the time this project is taking, you could be doing something worthwhile to gain content. Unless this is the only content that there is to offer.--TwoTailedFox

Yeah ok, not to be rude but rather blunt, we don't need you to tell us how to run our wiki, we don't need you to tell us what it is our wiki needs just as I don't tell you what is the best for YuGiOh. If you don't like out content don't click on our url and I really doubt that you function as some kind of Wikia Inquisitor who decides what goes on what particular wiki, Now I'm going to Be Bold and insert a nice little thumb in a seperate section at the bottom of the page. Something I thought was Danny's original idea. Please do not remove it or I will destroy your planet Regards:  Madclaw  (Talk) 07:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel I should also mention, TwoTailedFox, that we never intended to have tens of thousands of pages saying the same thing. Our Jax Pavan project is about having thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of pages saying different things but with similar names. But, as Danny said above, that point is moot&mdash;it's wrong to hope to police the content of a wiki whose culture one does not understand. We've added our box to the Big wikis page as a final offer; if you truly find it threatening, well, you guys are free to do what you like with it. We're too busy creating Jax Pavan articles to intervene further.  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 11:01, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, Madclaw, but I had to remove your image due to the flashing lights. Flashing lights hurt my eyes and makes me feel sick. I moved the image to the talk page, so that people can still see it. I don't have anything against Darthipedia, and I would like to have that wiki on the page, but the flashing lights would cause trouble, so please create an image without flashing lights. Thanks, and feel feel to destroy my planet. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 13:14, 20 October 2008 (UTC) That's why I use Monobook. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 20:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Flashing lights.... hurt eyes.... make you feel sick? Shame no one told Wikia that when they began placing just that in the middle of our articles. =) Supergeeky1 (The Cantina) (My Edits) 20:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I moved the lastest attempt to place Darthipedia on Big wikis to the bottom of the page, so that people won't get confused. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 18:31, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not going to make people any less confused. It's there with the other big wikis, only it's in the style of the top ones. Maybe we should just do what's been asked a few times and keep the joke at the Darthipedia only until it actually has enough pages to be qualified. JCM (talk&middot;edits) 21:56, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And maybe not, I don't take orders. Have a dandy ol' day.  Madclaw  (Talk) 15:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed, this page is not to be toyed around with, especially with lewd imagery. That change will be reverted and the page protected if necessary. -- 16:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Then you go ahead and protect it.  Madclaw  (Talk) 16:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't say I'd be protecting it. But the fact that it has only 1500~ articles, and the fact that you modify your statistics page to change it to 500mil+ disqualifies you from inclusion in the page. Just don't get yourself into any trouble. -- 16:20, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You know what, talk to Danny. It won't make any difference but at least it will bother him.  Madclaw  (Talk) 16:28, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure what Danny has to do with this. I'm sure anyone from Wikia would frown upon this kind of behavior. There's no reason to put that kind of thing on the page, let alone edit war over it. Darthipedia is a great wiki, but it still doesn't change that it's at 1525 articles, 975 short of the requirement. I really don't see the weight in your argument for inclusion due to that fact. If you want the criterion for inclusion changed, well, that's another discussion and another consensus. :) -- 16:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure what Danny has to do with that? Sure anyone from Wikia will frown upon this kind of behaviour? please read

this and I hope I enlightened you.  Madclaw  (Talk) 23:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the image on the right, not the Darthipedia log. -- 23:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes I can understand a gif file of a naked fat man in a bathtub surrounded by flashy lights might be disturbing to some people, so I replaced it with our safe for work logo.  Madclaw  (Talk) 23:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I've got an idea. Why don't we put Darthipedia at the very bottom in a small font without a link to the actual wiki. An example is here. JCM (talk&middot;edits) 15:45, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That would have worked were it not for someone who felt the need to remove it so the thumb is back in place again. I am glad however that you were willing to find a middle sollution in this. Cheers  Madclaw  (Talk) 19:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You still don't have enough content pages to fill up to the criteria to even be on the article. Your Jax Pavan etc. does not count; something that I thought you'd understand by now, but apparently not. 15:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There is absolutely no reason for inclusion. None. The requirements are quite clear. Because "Danny said so" is not a good reason, sorry. Danny is not in charge around here, the community is. If you want the requirements for inclusion changed from 2500, make a new discussion here and get consensus from the community to have it changed. Otherwise, Darthipedia does not yet belong. -- 16:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Charitwo asked me to comment on this again. We actually had pretty much the same discussion in October, which you can see above. The Darthipedia folks had an opportunity to make their case for inclusion on this page. You can see my most recent comment above, dated October 20th. The gist of my thoughts were:


 * "I would propose that we shake hands on this, appreciate the good intentions of the joke, and then let it go. We'll take Darth off the Big wikis page until the community writes enough content pages to be here legitimately."


 * That was pretty much where it rested for a while. On Nov 26th, SuperFlash101 got confused by the announcement on Darthipedia that there are 582 million pages, and added it to the top of the Big wikis page, not realizing that it was a joke. That got a couple of Darth people excited and initiated a new discussion.


 * For my part, I agree with Charitwo that this page is owned by the Wikia community. I initially proposed putting up a notice about Darthipedia's 582 million pages, because I thought it was funny and the Darth folks were helping with cleaning up the extra bot-created pages. However, that proposal was dependent on the larger Wikia community agreeing to it.


 * If this needs to be discussed again, then we can go ahead and discuss it. -- Danny  ( talk ) 18:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You'll have to excuse me if I sounded overly vocal :), but I wanted to discuss it fully here rather than get into some kind of edit war on the article itself. So I suppose it's okay to remove from the page now? -- 20:56, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think if you want to avoid an edit war, then you'll probably have to talk to Madclaw and the other Darth folks. If this is a community page and I'm not in charge, then it's up to the community to figure out how to resolve this question in a mutually respectful way. -- Danny  ( talk ) 21:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That's what I meant, yeah. I was just under the impression that Madclaw and the other folks at Darthipedia were thinking it was okay to add based on these two diffs. -- 21:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Problem solved. Cheers  Madclaw  (Talk) 02:22, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's creative. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 03:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Intuitive. -- 04:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Missing wikis in the list
Why is Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki not in the list? It currently has ~4.000 articles. Its sister project, Neverwinter Nights Wiki, also has more than 2.5k articles. Taikanatur 09:03, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I added both wikis to the list. If anyone has any objections, please list them here. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 17:26, 24 January 2009 (UTC)