User talk:Sannse

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Please add new messages to the bottom, thanks :) -- sannse (talk)

OK
I don't think talk pages will be used much anymore... anyhow, on this page, could you please follow the amount of votes accordingly, whichever users have more nos than yeses demote them to nothing, and for Cowlover, we have to wait for GG113 to vote-- Webkinz112 My talk page (haha, no link for you) 15:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, if this is admin removals only, then any bureaucrat can do that. If it's bureaucrat flags too, then please give me a list of those that need changing.   You need to make that decision from the votes, rather than me.  Thanks -- sannse (talk) 17:26, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Um, Hi o_O Anyhow, it's not just admins, bureaucrats too but I don't like saying bureaucrat because it takes so long to type and I hate typing eau (I don't like the word beautiful). Anyways, they're Iayami and NeoGal-- Webkinz112 My talk page (haha, no link for you) 16:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, I removed NeoGal's rights. Are you sure about the other?  Seems the only votes there are to keep Iayami as admin... -- sannse (talk) 09:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh ya, sorry about that :( Anyhow, thanks!-- Webkinz112 My talk page (haha, no link for you) 15:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

IRC Channel
Hello Sannse. I am Azul from the Kingdom Hearts Wiki. Lately, wiki activity has been at an all time high, but not for the right reasons. It seems there's been more socializing than contributing. I was wondering how I can make an IRC channel for our wiki. I can add my wiki channel to the list of wikis at the IRC wikia site. I'm not that familiar with IRC registering and all that, and I was hoping that you could help me, or direct me to a help page. Thanks. -Azul (talk ・contribs) 01:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, to get a channel added to the list you just need to give us the details via Special:Contact. But first you need to create the channel and register it.  To create it, you just join it, but I don't know the details on the commands to register.  The best people to help are those on IRC.  If you join the #wikia channel, there should be someone there who can give you some advice. Once it's all done, just drop us a line and we'll get it on the list. -- sannse (talk) 09:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

LightVDarkness mini-logo
I am Amy Cotton of the LightVDarkness wiki. I know you may not want to do this, but we are in need of a mini-logo. We want our logo to be of a pink heart to represent Kingdom Hearts. Can you help me with it? You may show me a place that can help me you know. Thank you, Amy Cotton 02:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, I have one on my other computer for you... a heart was a quick one. I'll try and upload it tomorrow :) -- sannse (talk) 20:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded... it should show once the cache has cleared. I hope it's OK! -- sannse (talk) 12:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Wiki and Affiliate
Hello Sannse, I'm Bluer from the Megami Tensei Wiki. Over there, we have an affiliation with a fansite called Digital Devil Database, and recently one of its administrators, yksniehtycul, has been made a sysop. As a result, the wiki is now made accessible over at digitaldevildb.com - except that it's not editable over there.

But as of late, I felt like the wiki is treated to accomadate to the digitaldevildb.com structure: this includes adjusting tables to fit the width of the digitaldevildb.com content page, proposing to lessen use of wiki coding and trying to advertise the site across the page wherever possible.

Is doing so allowed by Wikia - I mean the whole catering to another fansite structure that is. It does seem like "ownership" to me. Please reply, thank you.  BLUER   一番   18:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Bluer. In general, affiliations with outside sites (and formatting related to that) are completely up to the wiki community.  However, putting in adverts for the other site is less clear-cut.  As they are offering the the same content, it seems as though that is going to directly compete with the Wikia wiki - not something I would think would be good for the wiki.
 * There is also a problem in that the site appears to be mirroring Wikia directly. That is, they are using our resources and bandwidth to show the content.  That's not on without permission, and we generally block sites doing that.  I've asked for a hold on that to allow those involved to talk to us about this, perhaps you could let them know of the problem?  Thanks -- sannse (talk) 21:00, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You can contact User:Yksehtniycul. He is from digitaldevildb.com, and the one responsible for mirroring Wikia content on that site.  BLUER   一番   03:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I worry this is more personal than practical. Bluer has a history of zealously owning the wiki here (a fine wiki) which had driven away the founder and other top editors. I was encouraged by the other editors to speak some sense into Bluer, and everyone seems to now be on good terms, and sysop privileges was hoisted upon me without my asking. I fear this represents more the limits of Bluer's patience for my presence.


 * As for mirroring the wiki. I as the administrator of digitaldevildb.com assumed Wikia's mission was inline with Wikipedia. To provide the world with wikis foremost, the ads only a means to an end. I was under the impression content on wikia is public commons. The mirror at digitaldevildb.com in terms of traffic is insubstantial, and the ads in the sidebar are simply part of a template that is applied to the entire website. We target ads more directly on other pages, but the mirror of megamitensei.wikia. are ostensibly ad-free. If the fact that there are no ads is what you would call "competing" then perhaps the mirror effort is guilty as charged. That said the complete revenue for the website is not even enough to pay for hosting the website for a year, even though it is the premier English website catering to Megami Tensei exclusively. The pages are cached for hours. Requesting pages from wikia.com is of course the only way to obtain them, as do countless sites mirror wikipedia content amongst other wikis. It's impossible to imagine any other scenario that would not require "direct mirroring". I requested tables fit into an 800px horizontal format. This is good practice for any website, the wikia sidebar is the same size as the sidebar at digitaldevildb.com. I also requested th elements not be used for data cells (this change had no visual impact on the wiki pages) which is of course minimum best practice. Otherwise no requests have been made to accommodate the format of digitaldevildb.com.


 * Bluer has been very helpful, and initially gave us express permission to do so. We simply want to provide the information in the wiki as supplemental information in our site search. Or site is well known, and the involvement of the two can only be a net positive for wikia.com. Our content is readonly, for a streamlined experience, with a link to wikia first thing on the page. Our content can also be read on mobile phones without any user intervention. --Yksehtniycul 18:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, Sannse, since yksehtniycul saw it fit to describe me in a bad light, the founder, icysugarspike and I are in good terms. He has never expressed his dissatisfaction with my work, and in fact welcomes my edits and views to the wiki. He was and has not been "driven away" by me, it's because he chose to handle another wikia. In fact, he actually chose to be away from the other top editors to avoid arguments. Of course, if my word isn't enough you can check the founder's talk page. I hope there's nothing with me trying to clarify things :p  BLUER   一番   00:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Yksehtniycul. Using the content is not an issue, that's allowed under the CC-BY-SA license that megamitensei.wikia and other Wikia wiki use.  And that license specifically allows commercial use, so ads are also not a problem.  However, if you are directly using our resources to mirror the site, that's another matter.  We regularly block sites from doing this, as does Wikimedia.  I asked our technical team to hold off on blocking for a while, because you have a relationship with the wiki and I didn't want to interfere with that.
 * We do provide content downloads for sites that want to reuse content - usually via http://wikistats.wikia.com/dbdumps/dbdumps.html but currently on request (due to some server work).
 * I saw that you cache, and that's a help, but that doesn't solve the problem entirely. I'm not one of the technical staff, but perhaps I can put you in contact with one of that team to discuss this?  If you mail us at community@wikia.com I can put you in contact with the right person. -- sannse (talk) 13:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not accustomed to being mixed up in personal back-and-forths... and this is not a high priority for me. But I will try to stay in touch until we do get blocked from requesting pages. Firstly, I just want to say that I think our downloading the pages is the least wikia could do in return for the Megami Tensei enthusiast community, which is building the wiki here. Probably many of the wiki editors and readers first link to the site from the sidebar at our website. Finally, barring something akin to a CVS ), if we downloaded the content rather than requesting it on demand, the hit to your server would probably be something on the order of a thousand fold, and that would also be a hit to our server. Though important in it's own right, I can't imagine a day when the Megaten community would be so mainstream that it would make more sense to regularly download the contents of the wiki all at once (or one page at a time.) That said I would be interested in backing up the wiki from time to time if possible, and I would be happy to contact someone to make arrangements for that purpose. --Yksehtniycul 17:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Yksehtniycul. The downloads are generally available from a different server, which means that any extra load does not affect the main site - that's where the difference is (as I understand it).  I think the best thing is for me to ask one of our technical team to look at this, and see what will work best for us all.  -- sannse (talk) 11:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I would like to have all the information. Site administrators generally do what is easiest for themselves and that is usually easier for everyone traffic wise. If there is somewhere else you'd like us to access the wiki content processed as your wiki would, I can arrange that. But I think this is something no one would've otherwise ever noticed or cared about, and probably not worth anyone giving much thought to in the first place, as I understand the situation. I apologize I cannot be more outgoing under the circumstances, but please link me to, or provide whatever information is available, at one of my wikia user pages, and I will notice it sooner or later.--Yksehtniycul 00:22, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

All Pages of one wiki in another one?
Hello Sannse, some months ago I asked if it would be possible to search the content of a wiki with the search engine of a related one. I was specifically thinking of D&D Wiki, which scope encompasses, but should not replace, Spelljammer Wiki and others. The result then was that this is not easily done, so I instead created lists that correspond to the All Pages of the wikis with the narrower scope. They would have to be updated manually however. Do you see any possibility that a bot could be created/used to do that? And if it would indeed be possible, is there a chance this could be applied to a none-Wikia wiki, like the Great Library of Greyhawk? Thanks a lot! Daranios 12:43, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes this could probably be done with a bot. You might want to ask on the forum to see if someone can help you set this up.  Several users use bots, so possibly one will know more than I about getting them going. -- sannse (talk) 21:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Toastmasters (moved down for ease of reading)
User:ArthurOgawa writing on 2009 July 15:

Just over a month ago, you removed most of the content of the landing page for the Toastmasters wiki "removing most of the page for copyright review". It has now been long enough for a reasonably diligent effort at doing this job. Would you please let me know when you expect to have completed it? I would like to point out that in the meantime our wiki appears broken, and visitors lack even the navigation tools to dig deeper into the site. Is there any reason why we cannot at least have navigation tools on our landing page while you complete your review? Indisputably, the nav tools themselves are a priori free of copyright violations.

While I am discussing this process of copyright review, it would suggest it appropriate for you to let me and User:ErichV know on what basis you are reviewing the landing page. In particular:
 * Did someone claim that page had copyrighted material?
 * What material on that page, specifically, was claimed to be copyrighted?
 * What copyrighted publication, was it claimed, did the putative copyrighted material come from?

As I have made clear in the past, the intention of those contributing material to the Toastmasters Wiki is by all means to comply with applicable laws, such as copyright laws. We have acted responsibly to communications from Toastmasters International in this connection. And I hope that in due course we may carry out our work further, with the knowledge that the admins, such as yourself, are satisfied that such concerns have been been properly addressed.

Thank you for your attention.


 * Hi Arthur, it's down to the community to review the page.  The key element is to ensure that all content on the page is original work... even if you personally believe that the content from elsewhere is OK to use.  It's clear there is a dispute about reuse of content that you believe is in the public domain, and simply avoiding that content is going to be best.
 * In answer to your questions (which I think I have done before?) Yes, we received a DMCA takedown notice for the page, which means that we, as the content hosts, are obliged to remove it.  The takedown notice did not (and does not have to) specify further than to say the page was violating their copyright, and did not specify what publication was involved (content does not need to be published to be copyrighted, so there is no obligation to list a publication either).  They just stated that they were the copyright holders and required us to remove the page.  As it was clear that at least some of the content on the page could not be involved, I left a basic outline there, and they seemed satisfied with that.
 * So now it's down to you. You are welcome to rebuild the page... but if it contains any content taken from Toastmasters International, then I would expect that they would again contact us for it to be removed.
 * Just as a note (as Catherine mentioned by email) I'm currently in the midst of traveling... I'm moving country, and won't have full internet access for the next week or so.  But I'll try to reply to any messages as quickly as possible.  Or you can contact Kyle while I'm away - he's also aware of the situation.  -- sannse (talk) 11:16, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

User:ArthurOgawa writing on 2009 July 17: The “community” you are referring to above, those needing to review the page (specifically, Toastmasters landing page), appears to be User:ErichV and I. ErichV was the one who authored most of the content of that page, and I guess I am the person most exercised to rectify problems that are coming at the wiki in connection with the DMCA.

I will review this page's content and substitute content that is original.

As to the “dispute about reuse of content that you believe is in the public domain”, that discussion has nothing at all to do with our landing page. That page in fact is believed to have entirely original content.

What is news to me is that you think that you had already explained to me that the page was being taken down per the DMCA. No, Sannse, you had not explained that to me before. The only thing you did, that I saw, was to add a comment to your action, which then appeared in the page history, as “removing most of the page for copyright review”. Not much of an indication that the DMCA had been invoked.

By observing how you work, I now have a somewhat better picture of your process:
 * 1) Upon receiving the “DMCA takedown notice for the page”, you then remove the page, and
 * 2) You leave it up to the wiki users themselves to detect your action and to reestablish the page, using only your comment in the page history as a guide


 * Hi. What I said to you at the time (via email on 31 May) was: "We have an obligation to remove content that is properly reported to us.  We do look at the content, and it was clear to me that in this case, there was a lot of text involved that was not original. In such cases, yes, we will remove the pages and ask the community to fix the issues."  I also posted more generally on Talk:Toastmasters Wiki.  I see that I didn't specifically mention the DMCA, I apologize if that confused you.  -- sannse (talk) 20:25, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

User:ArthurOgawa writing on 2009 July 20: Thanks for directing my attention to the talk page on our wiki's landing page. For some reason, I did not receive notice that you contributed to that page on 28 May 2009. (Even though I had contributed an edit to that page, it does not appear to be on my watchlist.) So I was not aware of your note until just now.

And thanks also for your explanation in re the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). We are now a bit less in the dark about what we are dealing with here, and, no, you did not confuse us.

In connection with your continued deletion of pages from our wiki, I have a questions about a particular page I would like your response to.

Our Wiki's log shows that you deleted one of our pages:


 * 2009-05-28T12:05:18 Sannse (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Category:Advanced Communication Series" ‎ (Possible copyright violation)

Later, I created an entirely new page with all-original content, but you deleted that page:


 * 2009-06-10T02:31:34 Sannse (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Category:Advanced Communication Series" ‎ (repeat complaint, please do not restore)

What is your basis for deleting a page whose content is entirely original? And why are you saying “please do not restore”? Under what circumstances will we ever be able to have a wiki page for "Category:Advanced Communication Series"?

Plagiarism AT es.fringe.wikia.com
You handled a significant theft problem earlier this year for us at www.fringepedia.net when "Matias arana 10" stole 2/3rds of our content for the floundering fringe.wikia.com. Recently, the es.fringe.wikia.com has taken 95% of the content there from our well-established wiki. No effort was even made to change the image file (archivos) names from the ones we cropped, named and touched-up months before. The content and episode pages are copied too - using the exact same formatting AND custom coloring. The chief culprit is the admin for the site - Fedegaray. A lesser culprit is Campiedra.

Please take appropriate action to rectify this plagiarism. If unable, please refer to the appropriate action agent, or reply to me here with things I can do. As much as I enjoy communicating with you... these are not the circumstances I prefer. Thanks for your prompt attention. -- –DocH–   my edits
 * Hi, we have a Spanish speaking staff member available, so I'll ask him to look at this. I'm sure he can help -- sannse (talk) 20:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * - Thank you much. I assume you deferred to Zuirdj. I thought I'd start with you... helpful as you are, and familiar with our plight. –DocH–  02:36, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * - Still no action.... I suspect my admin will address Angela (+) shortly. --DocH15:11, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * DocH - Please could you either send me your email address, or drop a note using special:contact so that I can talk to you about where the problem is? Thanks. Angela (talk)

Vandal on kingdomhearts wiki
http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.193.135.203

Please ban him immediately. Thank you! Glorious  CHAOS!  05:05, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, the local admins will be able to help here -- sannse (talk) 20:29, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Changing user names
I have edited the finnish star wars wiki for over two years already, an i am now a bureaucrat, or in fact have been already for some time. But there's one new thing to me: how to change user names, as one of our administrators requested me to change his username. --DARTH SIDIOUS 2 (Ota yhteyttä&mdash;muokkaukseni) 09:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure only staff can change names on wikia, while bureaucrats can change names only on wikipedia. --4th hale  (talk ) 09:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It's more complicated than that I'm afraid, because of the shared user database across all Wikia. We can't easily change user names at all, so the best way round this is to suggest that he makes a new account instead.  He can leave a note on the user page of his old account to point to the new one.  -- sannse (talk) 20:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Redirect
Is it possible to change the wiki's url? I want to close this wikis Avatar Trilogy Wiki, Avatar Film Wiki and Avatar Movie Wiki to redirect them to this one Avatar Wiki. I am admin and bureocrats of all of them and I want to those wiki names lead to the same place (Avatar Wiki) Thanks a lot!!--Matias arana 10 15:47, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, please mail us via Special:Contact with all the details, and we'll have a look. thanks :) -- sannse (talk) 20:14, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

UnRuneScape Closing
Hi. Could you explain how the wiki's content poses a legal risk? I won't doubt your decision that it needs to close, but I'd like to know what exactly the problem is, since I was unaware that we were breaking any laws or guidelines, and whether it is at all possible to be rectified. Thanks if you can help.--Pig house Talk 08:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)